More intolerance from the Boyscouts

by crownboy 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Pete2

  From my reading of the article, he's not taking anyone to court. He's just appealing his expulsion.

  Lambert said he plans to appeal the decision within the Scouting council within the required 60 days. He is a top-ranked Eagle Scout with 37 merit badges.

  My wife left the Org. when our children were quite young -- I continued to attend meetings. She became very active in the Scouts, starting with Tiger Cubs -- and all the way through -- both my sons becoming Eagle Scouts. Yes, I was counseled more than once by the elders.

  Let me say I believe the Boy Scouts is a great organization. While many of my sons's Witness peers were doing drugs and/or having the social lives of ice-cubes, my sons had a "healthy" upbringing. My older son was even the Jr. Grand Marshall for the Christmas Parade. He was also chosen for Boys State. They both were excellent athletes and students.They both gave us absolutely no problems. I really believe that much of the "well roundedness" they achieved was because of their involvement in Scouting.

  Becoming an Eagle Scout requires a great deal of time and money. While the Scouts is a private organization -- they do recieve much funding from public sources like the United Way. Plus, there are dues and fund raisers to which the boys contribute.

  For me the bottom line is -- why strain out the gnat and swallow the camel. If the kid's made it to the rank of an Eagle Scout -- and he happens to be an athiest -- so what? One's spiritual life is a personal matter. Just as one's sexual orientation is a personal matter.

  I think the Scouts do a lot of good for boys and young men. That is until you become public about your athiest beliefs or sexual orientation. I think they would be an even better organization if they didn't sweat the small stuff. It's too bad they can't wake up and stop fighting dragons that don't exist.

  Pete2
• 

  Mary

  "......He had declared his atheism to the Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but was still granted the award....."

  He may have declared it, but he obviously never mentioned it on his original application form. My understanding is that you sign the application declaring your belief in God. If he had refused to sign the application, then the Boy Scouts would not have admitted him in to their club in the first place.
• 

  COMF

  Boy scout creed, learned as a tenderfoot (default rank for newbies):

  "On my honor I will do my best
  to do my duty to God and my country..."
• 

  TR

  If they want to go scouting, why in the hell don't they just start there own damn athiest Boy Scout club?

  Just like the WTS, I would rather that people not join, and they DO need to change policies that hurt and kill people, but they can believe in god if they want, same as Boy Scouts.

  I'm sick of shit like that. Women trying to get into men's only clubs, and vise-versa.

  TR
• 

  NeonMadman

  I was wondering what might happen if I, as a Christian, were to seek membership in the American Atheists Association? If I indicated on my application document that I am a Christian, do you think it is likely they would deny my membership? If so, would that be intolerant and bigoted of them? Or would they simply be a private association that has every right to set its own rules for membership, no matter how starnge or even wrong those rules might seem to those who do not share their views?
• 

  RunningMan

  Neon: Why don't you try joining an atheist association? I doubt very much that you have to take an oath.

  As for the "private association" bit, it is quite legal for them to expel someone because of their beliefs - the same as it is for the JWs and the KKK. That doesn't make it right. I'm also rather surprised that a group of persons who have suffered the same treatment (in fact much harsher) from their own organization would agree with the offender.

  To deny a person entrance to any activity, based on religious belief, is indeed discrimination. Negative is also a religious belief.

  This, coupled with their denial of a gay member, is causing the Boy Scouts to drop considerably in my opinion. They should be teaching people to stand up for their opinions and protect the right to express it. Instead, they are becoming another group of mindless followers.
• 

  NeonMadman

  Why don't you try joining an atheist association?

  Because I am not in harmony with the aims and goals of that organization, nor with its worldview. It would therefore make no sense for me to be a member of it, since I could never support what it teaches and does. But if I did join, and loudly proclaimed my Christianity, I can't help but suspect that I'd be given the "left foot of fellowship" just as quickly as at a Kingdom Hall.

  As for the "private association" bit, it is quite legal for them to expel someone because of their beliefs - the same as it is for the JWs and the KKK. That doesn't make it right.

  Doesn't make it wrong, either. The Boy Scouts have clearly delineated their opinions about religious belief. Every private association has the right to accept or reject for membership anyone whom they want. As long as the rules are applied fairly, no one has any grounds to gripe about it. Frankly, if, as Crownboy says, they waffled on the issue with this particular kid, that would upset me more than that they don't allow atheists to be members. So maybe this particular kid has a legitimate gripe - that they were inconsistent in their application of the rule. But that doen't affect the larger issue of whether they have the right to set standards for memberships.

  I'm also rather surprised that a group of persons who have suffered the same treatment (in fact much harsher) from their own organization would agree with the offender.

  As far as I know, the Boy Scouts haven't yet initiated shunning as a penalty for failing to comply with their standards for religious belief. If all Boy Scouts were required to ignore this kid in the future, not even eating a meal with him or saying hello to him, I think the attitude here would be a lot different. I know mine would be. It is the shunning of former members that most ex-JW's object to, not the fact that one is required to accept JW teaching in order to be a member.

  To deny a person entrance to any activity, based on religious belief, is indeed discrimination. Negative is also a religious belief.

  So, based on that statement, the possibility cited earlier in this thread of an atheist suing a church to be made a deacon would seem reasonable to you? Why should he be denied 'entrance to that activity' based upon his religious belief (even if negative)? The problem really is that, in today's politically correct society, the word "discrimination" has become an epithet. But, in reality, we all discriminate a hundred times a day. And, yes, we even discriminate against people. There are some people we wish to spend our time with, and others we choose not to. Some people we will work for, and others we won't. Some people we will marry, and others we won't. If we establish a private association for the purpose of associating with others of like mind or circumstances - Christians, atheists, stamp collectors, accountants - whatever it may be, we have the right to bar those who do not fit the profile we have established. And there's nothing immoral or wrong about it.

  They should be teaching people to stand up for their opinions and protect the right to express it.

  But at the same time, they should be denied the right to act in accord with their own rights and opinions?
• 

  JWinSF

  I have no problem with them setting up their rules as a private organization. However, they have a history of deceitfully accepting funds from organizations that specifically prohibit discrimination. When the issue of gays in the Scouts came up a short while back, many United Way Organizations, local government agencies, and buisinesses pulled the plug on their funding of the Scouts. Was the Boy Scouts practice of accepting money from organizations that prohibit discrimination in line with their stated principles of "truth, justice, and the American Way"? In my opinion, no. So, if they want to discriminate, fine. But, how dare they take funding from others that clearly state that recipients should not discriminate.

  John W Wirtanen
• 

  NeonMadman

  they have a history of deceitfully accepting funds from organizations that specifically prohibit discrimination.

  If that's the case, then I'd agree that they shouldn't take those funds. Privately run charities also have the right to determine which associations they will support, and can withdraw funding from any group that violates their standards, whatever those standards may be. I question your use of the word "deceitful," however; I don't think that the Boy Scouts have ever covered up what their guiding principles were, and as far as I know, they have not misrepresented themselves in order to gain funding.

  Frankly, I stopped giving to the United Way many years before the Boy Scout issue came up. I have long realized that the UW maintains a far-left political outlook, and supports many organizations with whose purpose I am at odds. So their reaction to the Boy Scouts' situation is exactly what I would have expected from them. What I find "deceitful" is that the UW so successfully markets itself as a middle-of-the-road charity that just tries to help people, when its support is clearly directed at advancing the political agenda of its leadership. But they are a private charity, and can support the causes they wish to. And I am free to exercise my choice in not supporting them and encouraging others not to do so.

  Was the Boy Scouts practice of accepting money from organizations that prohibit discrimination in line with their stated principles of "truth, justice, and the American Way"?

  Actually, that was Superman, not the Boy Scouts.
• 

  borgfree

  United Way Organizations, local government agencies, and buisinesses pulled the plug on their funding of the Scouts.

  I, personally have pulled the plug on contributing to United Way and other charities who give money to groups that engage in activities that I do not agree with.

  Borgfree