Nine Seconds that says it all. Have these elders any shame?
- I totally agree with you steve but I do want to see a fair fight especially as this hearing is public
Ruby: Os this kind of public hearing even legal in the way it is being conducted?
I'm not on the side of Jehovahs witnesses but I would at least like the hearing to be fair and just.
You bet it is. Have you not bothered to read how and why this was set up? Quit being so self centered to think that the Jehovah's Witnesses are being especially singled out for that so called persecution that they scream about. They are only one of many instuitutions under fire by the Royal Commission.
Educate yourself. The webpage is there with the information as to the "legality" of the Royal Commission and the powers granted it. The Commission has been set up under the order of the Queen of England. They have a well established legal system.
Intellectuals bullies? Lol! Well...if the shoe fits. Tell me why, please, that the experienced, intelligent and rational positioning of legal experts find it so easy to tear apart a bunch of guys who go by "First Century Christian law" instead of the democratic law that recognizes human abuses for what they are.
A fair fight? Not even close. The WTS is getting the shit kicked out of them and it is about time! They are being exposed for the incompetent and arrogant jerks that they are. I am going to cheer for every knock out punch they get. They have been beating up on children and women for far too long now.
Judical hearing? Yeah...how do they like it now??
oh c'me on OrphanCrow - I have done all my reading re the commission and stand by my concerns. I don't like to see the shit kicked out of people even if they deserve it - so we are very different.
I still think there should be proper representation for both parties. This is coming across like Jesus being questioned before the Sanhedrin but whats more this is even worse as it is public whereas that was in private. edit: Plus Jesus could stand his own better as he was what we would today consider middle class from a sociological perspective whereas these elders who are being questioned are probably not even that, having probably left school at 16-18.
JW's have JC meetings in private and if a child molester is DF'd they keep everything in private, they will not warn the congregation or the rest of society about this person. This is where the JW policies are wrong, the royal commission is at least giving 2 sides of the story and everything is on record and is in the open so that no one can hide anything.
If JW's want to be judges they should also do everything in the open for everyone else to see, just as they did in bible times.
- The whitewashed graves are being blown open by the withering blowtorch of Caesars judicial system, to reveal the dead men's bones inside, the dirty, unwashed cups, the filthy inner garments of this dangerous, sick little cult of the Watchtower Society and all its rotten fruitage. Truly, by their fruits you will recognize them.
Ruby I like your fairmindedness. Please don't confuse it with pity: It is possible to feel some pity for the elders plight - but is their plight due to unfair treatment or neglect of preparation for the Commission of Inquiry?
Ask this: The GB knew months ago about the Royal Commission of Inquiry. Why did they not help support the individual elders summonised to the inquiry? Indeed, why did these elders not bother toread up on it? It is there to be read. That they didn't speaks clearly about the level of indifference the GB and elders displayed.
Whose fault is it that the elders were so poorly able to answer? Let's not forget these elders belong to an organization that has spared no mercy in eviscerating the beliefs of other religious groups? Have you ever asked, Is that fair?
These are adult males of considerable experience and decades of leading congregations. I have seen nothing to date that leads me to conclude the Commission is unfair - but that does not mean I am without mixed feelings about the embarrassment these elders must be feeling - but whose fault is it that they have proven themselves to be too ill-equipped to adequately answer serious questions? If they have not done even basic home work, please don't blame the lawyers.
There is no need for the judiciary to pussy-foot around the elders' ignorance and organizational arrogance. To repeat, From those who claim much, much is expected.
- Don't pander to Rubys ignorant and utterly shameful criticisms of the Commission.
- Kudos.....to the Royal Commission. You are all to be highly commended. I'm giving you all a "G" for.... "Convincing Arguments"...."Tactful Yet Firm"...."Repetition For Emphasis"...."Enthusiasm".... and...."Effective Use Of Questions"....keep up the good work.
The questioning from the RC is brilliant. Calm, reasoned, deliberate, using JW appropriate language (asides from using the word "church") and the responses - and lack thereof - clearly illustrates the rock/hard place JW elders are put in.
Drag "Jehovah's name through the mud" (where "Jehovah's name" directly means the Watchtower Society) or do the morally/societally correct thing?
Well, if you protect your religious organisation, as any loyal member of the order would do, you put society at large at risk and open yourself up to prosecution. And bear in mind these guys are insured for $100 each.
Or you do what is ethically correct - report child abuse to those placed in the qualified position to investigate - and face exclusion and shunning.
I don't envy these - or any - elders.
I hope this case reaches the eyes and ears of the elders I used to serve with, that it causes them to pause, and if for no other reason than to protect themselves and their families, they wake up to what the Governing Body expects them to do.
- The question that begs a reply is: When, if ever, will the commission hear from any of the Bethel higher-ups?