Can any believer answer this? (page 2)

siegswife

Here's the way I see it. Bear in mind that I'm no science wiz so I might not use the right words to express myself. I think that the process of life itself contains death. On a molecular level, that which sustains and creates life is dependent on some level of death and rejuvenization. The existence of death is a reflection of our very nature. Some things, like animals and vegitation weren't ever meant to "live forever", so death would have always existed regardless of "sin" entering the picture. I believe that it is when the forces that govern our lives started to bring about the outcome of death, rather than life is the result of "sin". Sorry that this is all one paragraph, my enter key isn't working for some reason...

IslandWoman

Hi Gumby,

I guess that leaves a dilema for those who learn certain dinosaurs ate meat

Exactly! It does disprove the theories of paleontologists doesn't it!

IW

LucidSky

Pom: Interesting perspective. Do you believe that God purposely introduced killing into the animal world?

IslandWoman: So you feel that man and beast ate only vegetation up to the flood. I used to believe something similar. Gumby mentioned the dinosaurs. My main question is why God created dinosaurs and other animals with sharp teeth and claws that are most suited for meat-eating?

siegswife: Well put.

Edited by - LucidSky on 27 October 2002 23:31:15

Mulan

many animals would die if they didn't eat meat. Their bodies won't tolerate grains.

StinkyPantz

Pom-

I don't really get this statement:

I said Satan was the cause for God to create physical animals to be wild

What are you basing this on? And please no sarcasm, it's an honest question.

Cuz if God planned to have good and evil in our world, were we ever supposed to be happy?

Edited by - Stinkypantz on 27 October 2002 23:40:40

Edited by - Stinkypantz on 27 October 2002 23:41:39

pomegranate

Pom: Interesting perspective. Do you believe that God purposely introduced killing into the animal world?

Yes I do. For instance: Snakes were INTENTIONALLY made to sneak up CRAFTILY on their prey, stick their fangs into the little critters, crippling their nervous systems and then swallowing their food whole...That's exactly the way God made it. In image and likeness of guess who?

I see the madness in heaven played out before my eyes everyday...by watching what has been made.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What are you basing this on? And please no sarcasm, it's an honest question.

I am sorry if some of our interchanges came off as me being sarcastic. It was never intended. I know I am not one for being the most eloquent in the area of tact. It is a fault of mine...

To your question;

I am basing it on the Bible and what I see around me NOW. If God created everything in the beginning within a certain alloted time, then rested totally from ALL creating, that means everything the way we see it now was pretty much the way He created it then. Of course, excepting the numerous extinctions throughout time that are obvious by the fossil record.

Cuz if God planned to have good and evil in our world, were we ever supposed to be happy?

My opinion is...TRUE and complete happiness would never be FULLY realized until the serpent is nailed DEAD. But, we surely can taste the happiness to be through certain outworkings of Him. Like bearing children and stuff.

StinkyPantz

Pom-

So are you saying that Satan was already bad when God got around to creating serpents? What scripture says that? I thought that Satan saw Adam & Eve, and wanted the worship for himself and that's when he went bad. . .

But, if Satan was bad before God even created humans, why didn't he just kill him then and not allow him to corrupt us?

It's like when you have a child, you keep him as safe as possible. I'm sure that most parents if possible, would never let a negative influence near there child. And since God is all powerful he could've done this, so why didn't he protect us? I mean if Satan was obviously bad enough to dedicate an animal to be in his likeness before we were even born. .

Ginosko

I think that they are worst things that animals that eat animals, they are worms that put their eggs inside others insects and as I remember also small animals. Then the eggs grow in baby worms eating them the insects&animals while still alive until they dead. An ugly fact.

An I also agree that according all the biological evidence, animals eat animals before the appereance of man en earth. Furthermore, they are fossils that give some evidence of this point.

But I still believe in God. I think that is only a cultural point of view to see offensive that animals eat animals. I preffer to see Isaiah 11:6 as simbolic, not literal. Genesis talk about the wild beasts and also great sea "monsters" previous to the sin of Adan.

The problem may be to armonize this view point with the Bible, especially Gen1:29,30, but I wondering if this verses are well translated. You may see this:

29 And God <0430> said <0559> (8799) , Behold <02009> , I have given <05414> (8804) you every herb <06212> bearing <02232> (8802) seed <02233> , which is upon the face <06440> of all the earth <0776> , and every tree <06086> , in the which is the fruit <06529> of a tree <06086> yielding <02232> (8802) seed <02233> ; to you it shall be <01961> (8799) for meat <0402> .

30 And to every beast <02416> of the earth <0776> , and to every fowl <05775> of the air <08064> , and to every thing that creepeth <07430> (8802) upon the earth <0776> , wherein there is life <02416> <05315> , I have given every green <03418> herb <06212> for meat <0402> : and it was so.

As you can see in Gen 1:29 there are a form of hebrew word which means to give:

05414 nathan naw-than

a primitive root; TWOT-1443; v

AV-give 1078, put 191, deliver 174, made 107, set 99, up 26, lay 22, grant 21, suffer 18, yield 15, bring 15, cause 13, utter 12, laid 11, send 11, recompense 11, appoint 10, shew 7, misc 167; 2008

... but in Gen 1:30 talking about the animals feed they are not naw-than STRONG # 05414 the translator assume the: I have given . So I ask myself: Can it be possible to translate this verse (Gen 1:30) to express the idea of the food chain that the biologist talk about ?

hlkal hyhy Mkl erz erz Ue-yrp wb-rsa Ueh-lk-taw Urah-lk ynp-le rsa erz erz bve-lk-ta Mkl yttn hnh Myhla rmayw 29 Nk-yhyw hlkal bve qry-lk-ta hyx spn wb-rsa Urah-le vmwr lklw Mymsh Pwe-lklw Urah tyx-lklw 30

pomegranate

Excellent questions. Consider what I have to say...

So are you saying that Satan was already bad when God got around to creating serpents?

That's what I believe. Heaven was already in full tilt rebellion before Genesis 1:1.

What scripture says that? I thought that Satan saw Adam & Eve, and wanted the worship for himself and that's when he went bad. . .

I see the timing for when rebellion occurred by the information gained from a number of passages.

Before Satan went after Adam and Eve, he first wanted to be god. His evil deasirre is this: Assume godship, screw up heaven and make it divided, then screw up everything else God creates. If God says something is GOOD, surely Satan says everything God does is Evil. Good and Evil was at issue BEFORE Adam and Eve existed.

Remember the trees? Why would God depict a tree of Good and Evil if there was no such thing as evil yet? Why would God define something that never was, or never existed, or was never being practiced? I see it that if God has defined a tree as Good and Evil, then evil was existing at the time the tree was defined, which was before Adam and Eve were created. There are more angles to this too, if you want to hear them.

But, if Satan was bad before God even created humans, why didn't he just kill him then and not allow him to corrupt us?

Because there was no LAW for what Satan was doing. Defying God was never done before Satan did it, what Satan had created by defiance was NEW TO EVEN GOD, as such as thing never came into God's mind. Defying God was bad, but there was no Law against it.

God is just, and if justice is to be true, then if there is no Law, then there is no transgression so JUSTIFIABLY there can be no punishment. So, God being just, he could not do anything immediately to Satan, so, He begins to create the means by which to have him eliminated JUSTIFIABLY. We then have Genesis 1:1, the beginning of the plan to have Satan eliminated JUSTIFIABLY.

Have you ever been in a machine shop? When guys in that field run into a problem, they make something to fix the problem. A TOOL.

In heaven, there was NEVER any Law because no one ever defied God before. Now that there was defiance by disobedience, that becomes the very first law with a punishment that was placed on the next life form, mankind. The first law placed on Adam and Eve was a Law for simple obedience. To cut it to the bare bones, God said, "Obey me or die." God never said anything like that to anybody before...LAW WAS NEW.

Law was to be built on earth in another domain, then brought back into heaven...and applied fully.

It's like when you have a child, you keep him as safe as possible. I'm sure that most parents if possible, would never let a negative influence near there child. And since God is all powerful he could've done this, so why didn't he protect us?

He didn't stop him because that was not his plan. Surely, God saw Satan in Eden...God didn't do anything because that was not what God wanted to do. I see it this way: Satan just thumbed his nose at God and said, "Oh...so you call this a GOOD creation do you? Watch me screw it up and make it BAD, they will listen to ME not you, which means MY WAY is better than YOUR way. I AM GOD TOO." Thumbs nose at God and lobs spiritual vulgarities in His direction...

I mean if Satan was obviously bad enough to dedicate an animal to be in his likeness before we were even born. .

Satan was dictating anything...God's creation "days" were a slap in Satan's face every step of the way...the physical snake was a spiritual rebuke to the Satan...Satan couldn't care less.

Satan is like a bull being dragged by the nose ring to the slaughter...ever since Genesis 1:1 forward.

Sorry this was so long...tired...need sleep.

StinkyPantz

Pom-

I must say, and please please don't take offense to this because as strange as it may seem, I mean this as a compliment, but your last few words about the smartest thing I've heard you say these last fews days. If I believed in the Bible, I might just believe what you said. I mean, it explains WHY God created us and why he didn't just kill Satan in the beginning. Ya know, you could probably start a reliigon with this idea. I've never heard anything quite like it. Unfortunately, a person would already have to believe in the Bible already for it to have an affect. . .

Can any believer answer this?

Share this