60% of Jehovah's Witnesses leaving? (page 2)

Pathofthorns

I noticed you were from Canada. I would say from what I have seen, the number of hardcore JW's seems to be a rapidly shrinking group here. The majority are increasingly liberal and while still mentally and emotionally attached to the social club they have reduced this to a religion of convenience.

I still see KH parkinglots full on Sundays, but with the fragile loyalties of many of the Canadian JW's, it would not surprise me if attendance in the near future trails off at a rapid rate. The social club is a powerful motivation for keeping people in, but if people begin to leave in any significant numbers, friends of friends and their families may as well due to a snowball effect. Imo, all people here need is a reason to leave.

Path

AGuest

Shelby, Hi!

Well, "hey there" to you, too, Daddy-O!

I don't "discern" shit anymore. I quit doing that when I left the dubs.

Sure you do... you just forgot what the word meant, because you dismissed it along with several others that they misuse. Let me help you out:

dis-cern - 1. to separate (a thing) mental from another or others; recognize as separate or different 2. to perceive or recognize; make out clearly - vi. to perceive or recognize the difference... yada, yada, yada...

The problem is that when THEY use it, they give you some melarkey that they made up, that has NO scriptural or other valid support but in FACT goes to the opposite of what is "written", either in the scriptures or in the gospels/letters.. For example, "discerning" World War I as being the "sign" of the "end of the Gentile Times," when in FACT both "wars" and "signs" were warned of to be discerned quite differently by my Lord -

Matthew 12:39; 24:6

If the verse is right, it's right. If it's not, it's not. Nothing to "discern."

Ummm... one must "discern" just what it IS that is "right", yes? And what it applies to?

If God wants us to "discern" stuff, then he is playing games with his holy books and us.

Oh, come on, Daddy-O, I KNOW you're smarter than that! WIth ANY book that one reads one must discern the author's message. True, there are some books out there that are "simple", per se, in that there is no metaphor, inuendo, no possible "other" meanings. What my Lord has given you and I to understand with reference to these verses is also quite simple. However, IF he had dictated it in any simpler terms, can you say that you would be any more inclined to lend your ears to HEAR? I dare say you would not. Why? Because the "hearing" starts with your HEART... and you got something going on in there that keeps getting in the way. REMOVE it, dear one... and you won't NEED him to say "discern" this or that... for you will discern it readily.

BTW, that's WatchtowerSpeak. I don't like that, either.

No, such words/phrases as "Gentile Times," and "great crowd", and "Theocratic," and "governing body", and "field service," and "ministry school," and "1914," and "Armageddon"... are WTSpeak. Words and phrases that THEY'VE coined... and push as being from or approved by God. But my Lord himself is recorded to have encouraged his disciples to discern (or recognize mentally) what he was saying to them at a given time. He even said at one point that the reason he DID it, is because it was not FOR all to get.

Matthew 13:10-11.

But those who "hear"... those who "get it"... are those whose HEARTS... are "receptive", dearest Daddy-O! Receptive to what? To what he said/says! For example, he said that if you want to be PERFECT... you must LOVE... even your enemy! Most folks, however, don't WANT to do that! He also said that if you know your brother has something against YOU, go... make peace with your brother! Most folks don't want to DO that! He said that if you see someone in need (for example, the hungry crowd of 5,000)... YOU feed them. However, most folks don't want to do that. And we CERTAINLY see this lack of "want" prevalent among the practices of JWs, with regard to LOVING their enemy, making peace with those who have something against them (think Silentlambs), and feeding the hungry, literally... as well as spiritually. He indeed told Peter to "feed my sheep", but he ALSO told Peter... and the others... when that crowd of 5,000 were hungry... "YOU give them something to eat!"

I hear, dear Daddy-O... NOT because I am perfect (oh NO! Trust me!)... but because my HEART... is "receptive": he tells me to do such and so... or say such and so... and I do/say it. For example, he told me to visit a brother, Israel, for a reason, yes? I could have said, "Am I my brother's keeper?" But, I heard... and I obeyed. Thus, just as it is recorded, "For whoever HAS... (a receptive heart and thus, ears to hear... and thus, HEARS), MORE will be given!

If "fruits" of the spirit that are PLANTED in such one, Daddy-O (remember, JAH is a cultivator!)... GROW... they EXPAND the heart... thus allowing ROOM... in the HEART... for MORE fruits to be planted... and grow... so that MORE... can be 'given'... and/or planted/sown.

Thus, God, though Christ will PREPARE our hearts for such sowing... IF WE WANT IT... and IF we want to RECEIVE (be 'receptive') to what is to be sown there... LOVE... for ALL... and RECEIVE "water"... holy spirit... in order for it to GROW. But... if there are weeds there... that are there because we WANT them to be there... they can choke out the good fruit. Thus, whatever is in our hearts that choke the "fruits" of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, mildness, kindness, goodness, faith, long-suffering and self-control), we have to "weed" out... and if we can't, at least let God, through Christ, do so.

Psalm 10:17

Where do we come in? In WANTING it... and being TRUTHFUL when we say, "Teach me to do YOUR will, O JAH."

Psalm 40:8; Psalm 143:10

We're just always SO afraid that HIS will... is not the same as our own... that we refrain from even asking. However, JAH... is merciful... so that when there ARE times when our own will is what we want/need, it CAN be "granted". True, it may be to our detriment, but it may also not be. Depends on what kind of heart WE have... as to what we ask for... and why.

Matthew 14:13, 14

Farkel - Doesn't "Discern" Shit Class

Okay, then, maybe you don't. But... it doesn't HAVE to be that way. The "choice"... is truly yours.

I bid you the greatest of love and peace, dear D.

Your servant (as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel), and "friend",

Shel

Edited by - AGuest on 27 October 2002 11:6:32

DocBob

Hi Cheryl,

On Sunday evening a Jehovah's Witness still active in the Watchtower and said that 55 - 60% of Jehovah's Witnesses have stopped attending in some kingdom halls. Has anyone else noticed a significant drop in Kingdom Hall attendance? Is there something big going on inside the WT organization that outsiders may not be aware of?

I think you misunderstood what he was saying. The 55-60% were the attendance figures based on the number of publishers in the congregation. He was saying that 55-60% of the number of publishers in those congregations were attending.

It was a common way of tracking attendance when I was an elder. When I was an elder, they liked to see 110-120% attendance at the public talks and felt good about 100% at the school, service meeting and book study. The school and service meetings were usually the lowest attended meetings. By the time I left we were running in the low 70% range at the service meeting and the mid 90% range at the public talk.

cherjcd

Thanks DocBob for your comments

He also told me that out of a congregation with 115 publishers only about 45 were showing up. These types of numbers were also reflected in other congregations near them. The elders were explaining the low numbers to be a result of people taking vacations but after 12 weeks of low attendance of their publishers it became apparent that this wasn't a viable explanation.

I asked our support group this week if they were aware of this being a trend here in Canada as well. One fellow said that he talked with his grandson who is a JW and he said that the Witnesses are dropping out like flies.

Cheryl

Pork Chop

Well it's not that way in my area, most Halls seem to be running better than 100% on Sundays.

blondie

In our area sometimes it seems like everyone is there, but it's more like musical chairs. If you look around, only 60% are assigned to that congregation and the other 40% are visitors from other congregations.

Blondie

Did you know that babies can be counted? Did you know that if someone comes in for the last 2 minutes of the WT Study, they will be counted as being there the whole time?

Dismembered

Farkel
Doesn't "Discern" Shit Class

Hey can I join?

DocBob

He also told me that out of a congregation with 115 publishers only about 45 were showing up. These types of numbers were also reflected in other congregations near them. The elders were explaining the low numbers to be a result of people taking vacations but after 12 weeks of low attendance of their publishers it became apparent that this wasn't a viable explanation.

Wow, that is bad attendance figures. I'm sure that their elders will be getting a little pep talk from the circuit overseer on his next visit. That's how that usually works. If the figures are not up to snuff, the elders get a pep talk and they, in turn, give the congregation a pep talk.

It is sooooo good to be away from all that. :)

RunningMan

Back when I was an MS, the Circuit Overseer mentioned (to the elders & MSs only) that low meeting attendance was being called the "Western Hemisphere Disease".

At my cong, it is not unusual to have 40-50 in attendance at the school and service meeting, out of 80 publishers. In fact, if everyone came, we would have about 105, including kids, irregulars, etc.

I'm not sure if those numbers have held up, since for the last six months I have added my own name to the list of non-attenders.

cherjcd

It looks like our web site was down for a couple of days unbeknownst to me. It is now back up on a different server. http://www.jwinfoline.com/Page/audio_tapes_of_month.htm

Shirley Jackson's testimony about her time in the Watchtower is on this page. Her story also made it into the press. Quite shocking.

60% of Jehovah's Witnesses leaving?

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