BS Vacuum (page 2)

hippikon

Had Enough: Yes you have some valid points. What is the spiritual void though? Perhaps it’s the right side of out brain looking for answers to the questions our left side raises. Questions that we don’t like the logical answers to. Personally I like to face the facts and not make up answers or seek answers that suit me better than that that is plainly evident. However I’m not trying to kick the crutches out from under anyone. Rather I’d like to see people be able to stand on there own two feet. And as COMF implied get of the magic roundabout.

Jimmy James: “As if atheism/agnosticism can only be the result of emotional trauma.”
“They now value evidence more than emotions.“

Good Points.

Out n Free: “all needs to be reexamined without lifelong prejudices” Agreed and we also have 2000 years of prejudices and peer pressure.

Comf: “Unconditional love. Christians talk about it... agnostics live it.” Bravo If we do have love its because we want to not because we are told to. (and if it doesn’t come from within its displayed it in a phoney way)

patio34

This is such a good thread, Hippikon. Thanks for starting it. I haven't formed any beliefs yet as I just left a mere month ago.

However, reading statements such as 99% of scientists believe in evolution as a fact, and some of the very derogatory things about the Bible, now that I don't see it necessarily as the "Word of God." Things such as the genocide praticed by the Jews. Have you ever noticed the disparity of the WT saying how worldly nations drop bombs that kill innocent women and children? HELLO! What do you suppose the Israelites did to all those Canaanite nations?

However, I digress. My point is that is you view this life as maybe all there is, you are more inclined to value it and use it to the best you can, since there is no "paradise" or "heaven" where you have forever.

Also, ever notice how everything else on the earth dies? Permanently? Why should humans be any different?

Well, that's my two cents. Cheers!

Patio

hippikon

My point is that is you view this life as maybe all there is, you are more inclined to value it and use it to the best you can, since there is no "paradise" or "heaven" where you have forever.

So John Lennon was right all along. He must have been a prophet. Lets start a Dear John religion.

ozziepost

G'day all, this morning I didn't imagine this would turn into such an interesting thread. How wrong I was!

Tina, Greetings.
May I clarify my point which I made when I was rushed this morning. My observation is that many of my friends (I number 65 who have 'come out' these past 2 years) have been so 'shellshocked' by their experiences in the borg that being empty emotionally and possibly spiritually they are then not sure what they believe. This is agnosticism. It is not to say that an agnostic must be devoid of spirituality. They, if you will, are a different type of agnostic. They is clumsily put, perhaps.

outnfree, G'day to you.
"There IS no one true religion!"
I think it may be more accurate to say this in the context of looking for an organisation. I would certainly recommend an individual having a personal faith and relatioship with God, but not with, or in, an organisation, or church. That would be like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

"I agree hippikon and had enough that it could be dangerous for most to "jump ship" too quickly and not just spend time sitting with the things they've discovered about the Society and their own reactions thereto."
I agree with you on this but with this cautionary comment: don't leave it too long! Use the time wisely to read and study (where have we heard that before? That may be difficult in a busy lifestyle, but Mrs Ozzie and I have found that at least a year was needed before we were even partly 'de-programmed'.

HadEnough:
Glad to read your latest post; from your well presented comments I can see that you seem to be enjoying it here! I'm not sure which books you may have referred to, but you may have seen references to two book written by Raymond Franz "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom". Mrs Oz and I found these of immense help as we started this road that led to freedom. Following that it needs to be replaced with something 'positive', that is, something positive in respects to belief. I chose an in-depth study of the writings of the apostle Paul, as well as the works of Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones, an outstanding Welsh non-denominational preacher. His series of commentaries on the Bible book of Romans are something else! We wish you well in your search.

Cheers to all,

Ozzie (of the freedom fighters class)

TR

The most important thing that I learned from the WTS is that "religion is a snare and a racket".

I was taken to the cleaners by the WTS, it was a crap shoot and I lost. However, I got lucky and left. Not gambling anymore, but willing to look at different views from the outside.

JimmyJames,

They now value evidence more than emotions. They recognize patterns in religious organizations and they won't make the same mistake twice.

Amen! I SAAAAYYYY, AAAAMMMENNNN, brotha.

TR

Englishman

Ozzie,

Or like the fella who was on the outskirts of Hiroshima who said: "Bugger this! I'm off to Nagasaki!"

Englishman.

larc

Hey TR,

When it comes to religion, I don't want to lead, I don't want to follow, I want to be left alone.

This summer I am looking forward to: baseball, baptism of the babes, and beer. You know, I think the letter "B" might be sacred.

stephenw20

Hippikon,
its been noted by some who study mystiscm and spirit that when you give your self to an org..... or become part of a "tribe"...the tribe protects you from having to think for yourself and have enough selfesteem to say..I am as good as the next fellow, and what ever God has given them I have too.

too many times(and the JWS are a fine example) when one joins a new tribe......... they just give away far too much of themselves and their energy and find that is not just a part of them but their exsitance is predicated on it..........

I cant say all the answers known to men are in me, but I do beleive that we all have the opportunity to develop without organization a realtionship with the higher power.

If I am to give my energy to anything or any one..I ll give back to the one who gave to me... he will judge me and guide me......

organized religion is as TR states....such a snare....it is a shield or badge to too many people...yet there is only one divine power.......

I ll take the sign of the curtain being rent in two , as an indication that its not needed.....and keep up the daily communication from the higher self of me to the higher power.....

s

patio34

As for filling the void, I've often thought the local Unitarian church sounds nice. Belief in God is optional and there are many nice discussions for free thought and social activities.

But I'm not ready to be in anything religious. Only stopped meetings a month ago.

As far as being ath/agn, if there is no God, then the WTS is not so bad, just very controlling, but as is evidenced by its large following despite its being so difficult to follow, it is filling a "niche" in evolutionary terms. I walked into it with my eyes wide open. I just should have done more investigation and not been so gullible.

Patio

Tina

G'day ozzie,
Thanks for the reply!!
I do understand that some who leave may be'not sure' of things,,,and that's OK,because it hopefully leads to an objective search for answers.....I dont consider this 'shellshocked' but merely a period of transition........from my personal experiences and that of others I know who left,,,,there is little existential angst......getting jolted out of preconceived notions and ones comfort zone are actually postive...postive growth and change only occur when one is jolted out of that 'zone'........rational inquiry,based on logical and reasonable thinking only happen then........thanks for your thoughts! regards,Tina No Existential Angst Class :>

BS Vacuum

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