Watchtower study vs. Bible study

by dreamcatcher 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • dreamcatcher

    Very Urgent please help

    I am looking for scriptures that refer to the correct way of worship (and I am sure it will not include reference to watchtower material).

    I am currently studying the watchtower with some JW's in our area, but have serious reservations about their lack of communal worship that does not include complete readings from the bible. (ie. reading a chapter and then using the Watchtower to back it up instead of using the bible to backup the teachings of the Watchtower).

    The watchtower is not divinely inspired so HOW ON EARTH AM I GOING TO GET ANYTHING OF VALUE OUT OF IT. The JW's simply do not want to understand that I need to feed my faith in God not feed my faith in the watchtower.

    Please, any ideas on scriptures that indicate the reading of the bible during communal worship?


  • mamashel

    Hello, and welcome. First I would like to say, trust your internal instinks that are telling you that something is not right. Dont be like some of us here that stayed involved with doubts for years and years.

    One thing that i can suggest to you is to get your hands on a copy of the book Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. He was an elder and member of the governing body in NY, and he explains everything you need to know in this book about the false teachings of the witnessess.

    There are NO scriptures in the bible that show you are to use the watchtower along with the bible for study.

    Also ask them to show you from the scriptures where is says to use the wt, or anything you may question that doesnt seem right. And if they give you a scripture, share it with us, and we can show you how they try to use scripture to prove their theory, but are actually missquoting the bible.

    By the way, the New World Translation was translated by a man who had only 2 years of schooling on translating the greek scriptures, and was only self taught on translating the hebrew scriptures, so I dont thing that that is much education on the bible to be able to be an accurate translator.

    I hope you find the answers you are looking for, but be assured, the wt society if not the place to find it.

    They are a very controlling unloving organization, and many lives have been destroyed because of it. Use precaution and much prayer, and God will show you the answers.

    God Bless


  • NeonMadman

    I don't know of any scriptures that specify the order for worship; that was pretty much left up to the individual churches. Obviously, the Bible is God's Word, and needs to be emphasized over human writings.

    But why are you so concerned with what they are doing in their meetings? If you're having an individual study and they're having it from a publication, tell them you don't want to do that anymore. They offered you a free home Bible study, just tell them that's what you want, not some other book. If they tell you that they can't do that, you could accuse them of 'false advertising'. If they are willing to do it, don't take anything they say at face value. Read the entire context of every scripture they show you, and find out if it really means what they say it does. Insist on using your own Bible, not the NWT. Note the differences between the translations when you run into them, and make them explain why their translation differs from all others. If you get stuck on certain scriptures, there are plenty of resources on the web to help you understand the JW's' misinterpretations, and plenty of people on this site who would be willing to help with specific questions.

  • dreamcatcher

    Thank you for your responses.

    I can understand your concerns about getting involved with JW's (and yes somethings definately don't seem right) but I feel that I have run out of options. I need to find a religion that I am comfortable with and therefore need to pick each one apart.

    Please do continue posting me your very valuable comments.

  • simwitness
    I need to find a religion that I am comfortable with and therefore need to pick each one apart.

    If I may, why do you feel this way? What tells you that you "need a religion"?

    These are the questions that I would be asking myself, and did many years ago.

  • outnfree

    James 1:27 (New World Translation): "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after ophans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world."

    Please ask the Witnesses who visit with you what provisions they have for orphans and widows in the organization. Do they build orphanages? Feed or educate the poor? Is there a fund to help older women if they are struggling financially? An institution that helps with their physical needs? A van that takes them to their medical appointments? A cleaning service for their homes? (They have none of these things but will try to tell you that they provide such assistance on a one-on-one basis for congregation members. Ask who arranges the help. Also, ask if the member must be in good standing to get such aid. Ask what being in good standing entails.)

    Some religions feel that the events which unfold in Revelation unfold in conjunction with pure worship in the heavens. If so, at Witness services, where are:

    Lamps of fire? Revelation 4:5 "And out of the throne there are proceeding lightnings and voices and thunders; and [there are] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, and these mean the seven spirits of God." (Witnesses teach these seven spirits represent the fullness of God's holy spirit.)

    Water? Revelation 4:6 "And before the throne there is, as it were, a glassy sea, like crystal." (Witnesses teach the glassy sea represents the cleansing, recorded, Word of God.)

    Obeisance (Kneeling)? Revelation 4:9,10a "And whenever the living creatures offer glory and honor and thanskgiving to the one seated upon the throne, the one that lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before the One seated upon the throne and workship the One that lives forever and ever"

    Revelation 7:11,12 "And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying: 'Amen! The blessing and the glory and the wisdom and the thanksgiving and the honor and the power and the strength [be] to our God forever and ever. Amen."

    Reading of Scrolls (Bible) as at the synagogue? Revelation 5:1, 2 "And I saw in the right hand of the One seated upon the throne a scroll written within and on the reverse side, sealed tight with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice: 'Who is worthy to open the scroll and loose its seals?'" (The answer is the Lamb, the Word of God personified.)

    Incense? Revelation 8:3,4 "And another angel arrived and stood at the altar, having a golden incense vessel; and a large quantity of incense was given him to offer it with the prayers of all the holy ones upon the golden altar that was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense ascended from the hand of the angel with the prayers of the holy ones before God."

    There is also singing depicted, but Witnesses DO sing as part of their meetings.

    Acts 2:40-42 "And with many other words [Peter] bore thorough witness and kept exhorting them, saying: 'Get saved from this crooked generation.' Therefore those who embraced his word heartily were baptized, and on that day about three thousand souls were added. And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to sharing [with one another,], to taking of meals and to prayers."

    1 Corinthians 14:26-33 "What is to be done, then, brothers? When YOU come together, one has a psalm, another has a teaching, another has a revelation, another has a tongue, another has an interpretation. Let all things take place for upbuilding. And if someone speaks in a tongue, let it be limited to two or three at the most, and in turns; and let someone translate. But if there be no translator, let him keep silent in the congregation and speak to himself and to God. Further, let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern the meaning. But if there is a revelation to another one while sitting there, let the first one keep silent. for YOU can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all be encouraged. And [gifts of] the spirit of the prophets are to be controlled by the prophets. For God is [a God], not of disorder, but of peace."

    1 Corinthians 16:1, 2 "Now concerning the collection that is for the holy ones, just as I gave orders to the congregations of Galatia, do that way also yourselves. Every first day of the week let each of YOU at his own house set something aside in store as he may be prospering, so that when I arrive collections will not take place then." (Witnesses make a big deal that there is no public collection at their meetings and this does seem to have Scriptural backing with this verse. They also make a big deal that they have no paid clergy. But there are contribution boxes for the "Worldwide Work" in every Kingdom Hall, and those donations help pay for the room and board of thousands of Witness 'holy ones' around the world -- the Witnesses own sort of 'religious': traveling overseers, Branch overseers, Bethelites, Governing Body, missionaries.)

    Good luck!


  • PurpleV


    Before you go any further with the witnesses, please read this thread, which was started by a non-witness who is considering marrying one.

    Good luck


  • Kenneson

    If the Watchtower is so vital to Bible study, why didn't Jehovah give us the Bible in 1879, which is the year the Watchtower came into existence? People had Bibles for centuries prior to this, but according to JW logic no one could understand it until the Society came along? How nonsensical of Jehovah to give mankind the Bible ages ago, but no Bible aids to understand it (until modern times)! Wonder if they ever heard of the Holy Spirit?

  • CoolBreeze
    I feel that I have run out of options. I need to find a religion that I am comfortable with and therefore need to pick each one apart.

    This is just my opinion of course, but I feel that religion is just man's interpretation of the divine. I think it is each individuals responsibility to develop a relationship with his or her creator. Reading the writings of others and their thoughts can be quite valuable, but adopting rigid dogma will remove you from your spiritual potential. It is my belief that that all the holy books written throughout history have been the creation of men who have had a political agendas. As far as I can tell, even the Bible was merely the way of the Holy Roman Empire to subjugate the savage barbarian hordes of Europe with the fear of everlasting torment if they disobeyed the law they had created. This law was encapsulated within the New Testament or Greek Scriptures. These are just my thought, and are as likely to be wrong as anyone else's.


  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    but have serious reservations about their lack of - communal worship that does not include complete readings from the bible.

    I thought much of their worship didn't include things from the bible - is a double negative meant there?

    I think this bit caught everyone's eye.

    I need to find a religion that I am comfortable with and therefore need to pick each one apart.

    " Danger, Will Robinson" - careful you don't start needing to rely on Dr. Smiths.


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