JW's, no worse than anyone else?

by sleepy 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • sleepy

    As far as I can see most JW's no worse than anyone else on this planet.

    Humans are often in "conflict" with the opinions of other humans , believing their ideal is "right" while others are "wrong".In general the people that make up Jehovahs witness, that is seperate from those leading ,are often trying to do their best to do what they think is right.This sometimes leads them to do things I believe are wrong even .But so do many other people and groups do things I think are wrong.Am I the only one who is right?I think not.There are no rules to being human just choices, some based on what some feel to be scientific reality other on spiritual fealing other on something else.

    Who desides what is the best, is there even a best way of life?So while I belive JW's are factualy wrong and this causes them to do , what seem to me to be illogical things so do most other people just in different ways.

    Edited by - sleepy on 1 October 2002 14:17:32

  • Valis

    Well at least the JWs play by the live and let die rule...especially members of their own congregations..pretty cool huh?


    District Overbeer

  • gumby

    Hey Sleepy.

    Have you forgotten some things?

    Are most others guilty of seperating families, causing deaths from suicides and medical blunders, made major life changes because they thought/think the end is near.

    Have most others caused emotional harm to kids by not letting them live as other kids and do things other kids do.........school activities, sports etc.?

    How can you believe others are no different than the dubs? How about screwed up marriages by stupid ass policies?

  • Englishman


    I agree, that's great that they make mistakes just like everybody else does. Trouble is, their mistakes have cost me my inheritance and a relationship with my parents. And my childrens relationship with them went by the board too.

    Mistakes are fine until it interferes with family relationships. When it does...WATCH OUT!


  • sleepy


    It already has.

    But this does not only happen to ex-JWS, and not to all ex-JWS.

    The point is that there is no universal standard of conduct or rules for living , people have as much right as anyone else to believe what they wish, no matter how daft I think it is.Jehovahs witnesses wnt be the only people to get on my tit's in this Life.

    There will be others.

  • willy_think

    Interesting observations, if the JW's are no worse then:
    The JW are no better then any church controlled by Satan.
    no better then any group that intentionally misleads it's members.
    they are not better then any org that protects molesters.
    they are no better then any group that shuns education.
    they are no better then any group that advocates violence as a control technique over your family.
    they are no better then any org who demands complete obedience
    they are no better then any church that ritually rejects that which represents the body and blood of Jesus.
    They are no better than any totalitarian cult.

  • Sentinel

    I would tend to agree with you, except for one thing. They will not tolerate anyone who does not believe the way they do.

    They do not allow freedom of choice, without dire consequences. They use emotional blackmail to control and manipulate those once connected.

    If you are just speaking about doctrines. They line up right along with all the other false religions they so wholeheartedly condemn. The thing that makes them stand out is they are extremists, very dogmatic, and cultish. This makes them different from mainline religions in general.

    I would give any of them the right to have their beliefs out of respect. But, I would expect the same treatment in return, and that is not possible for them, which leads to separation of families and loved ones. They preach love, but fail because of the way they label and shun.

    So, as individual human beings, they are no worse nor any better than anyone else. As a religious organization, they have much to answer for.


  • NeonMadman

    In terms of everyday behavior, you may be right in that JW's are no worse than non-JW's morally. However, the constant activity of judicial committees bears adequate witness that they are also no better. And that's the crux of the issue: they claim to be morally superior to others. They claim that their teaching produces better people. But they aren't.

    On top of that, there's a certain type of fundamental dishonesty that goes with being a JW. A form of doublethink, to use the Orwellian term. One cannot be completely honest with oneself, but must program his mind to disregard or rationalize information that would be detrimental to the organization. And, of course, JW's also do not respond completely honestly to many questions that are posed to them in the field service. In another recent thread, I made these comments on the topic:

    ...in my opinion, JW's are somewhat less honest than non-witnesses. Maybe they are about equivalent in areas like monetary things (i.e. finding a wallet, getting too much change from a clerk, etc. - here's a thread I started a while back that relates to that: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35497&site=3)

    But JW's will say anything to avoid making their organization look bad. Ask yourself: When I was out in service, if someone asked me, "Do you believe that everyone except members of your group will be killed by God?" Would I have answered in a straightforward fashion? Or would I have attempted to dance around the issue and leave the householder with a false impression? What if I was asked, "Would you allow your child to die rather than have a blood transfusion?" or even, "Are you here to try to convert me to your religion?" All of us who are former JW's know we would not have answered these questions directly and honestly. Instead we would have attempted, in effect, to deceive the householder by giving the impression that our beliefs were something more palatable to him/her (without actually saying that they were). Such equivocation from people knocking at the door allegedly to dispense "truth" is an indication of fundamental dishonesty.

    In the same thread, Quotes pointed out that JW's also engage in criminal activity when it suits the organization's purpose:

    Remember, they already commit crimes in the name of The Truth(TM):

    • vandalism/destruction of opposing view (a.k.a. Apostate) books at public libraries
    • illegal entry into homes and apartment buildings clearly marked "No Tresspassing"
    • failure to report suspected and alleged child molestation, contrary to mandatory reporting laws
    • failure to pay taxes ordered by the French government. They simply moved out of the contry to avoid payment. So much for "paying Caesar's things to Caesar".
    • abducting children to prevent court ordered, life saving, blood transfusions
    • abducting children to prevent court ordered custody of a "non-believing" parent
    • bribing Mexican government officals to receive a "cartilla" which indicates that mandatory military service has already been served
    • telling lies while under oath, claiming it is not a lie but rather "spiritual warfare"

    Can we really say that people who subvert their sense of right and wrong to the will of a corrupt organization in these ways are "no worse than anyone else"? I don't think so; I think we must conclude that by condoning and participating in all these types of behavior, JW's have made themselves morally and ethically worse than the average people whom they hold in contempt.

    By the way, the thread I refer to (and excerpted) above can be read in its entirety at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36019&site=3&page=1

  • detective

    If you are saying they are no worse than any other cult, I might agree with you. If you are saying they are no worse than any other religion, I disagree with you.

    Are than any worse than Heaven's Gate with it's encouraged suicide? Or the People's Temple with it's encouraged mass suicide?

    Organ Transplant bans. Blood bans.

    You tell me, are they any worse than any other cult?

  • sleepy

    I feel you must look at human history and what people will do due to peer pressure , and flawed logic and understanding.

    How did German populance alow the holocost , were that group of humans born at that perticular time different to the rest?No.What happened was down to the makeup of the human mind , no different than ours, only very few awer able to break free.

    But even then who is to say what is right.The death penalty, owning guns , age of consent , prisons , big business millions of other things.How many battles am I to fight if i want the world to fit my standards?

    I feel that most humans if brought up as witnesses would just do the same.That is my point .

    Jehovahs witnesses are doing what most humans do , in that particular situation.

    That does not meen I agree, Hell I left and have a LOT of anger for my mispent youth.

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