Reforming the IREFORMABLE? (page 2)

hillary_step

Ozzie,

Perhaps, perhaps not, but it will certainly safeguard the welfare of its adherents and that to me is as worthy a cause as might be envisioned. Many churches struggle as a group to act like the Christians they purport to be, perhaps because they view theological change as an adversary and differing viewpoints as a challenge to God himself. While on the extreme end of this thinking, the WTS certainly does not hold the monopoly in either a contemporary or historical framework on religious brutality.

Christianity did not enter a state of suspended animation in the C1st, yet this seems to be what many people have tried to do with it. IMHO Christianity only works if it lives. The WTS is a text-book example of a religous group who are locked in a Levitical world where the Christian spirit is a long-term embarrasment to them.

Best regards to Mr & Mrs Ozzie - HS

DannyBear

Hillary_step,

***The WTS is after all. and this should never be forgotten, is just another fringe adventist religion which has had trouble growing up. ***

Miller, Barber, Egyptologists, the Mason's, all had more influence on CTR than the average jw will concede. So your anology is succinct. I like it, 'trouble growing up".....to say the least eh?

Even so, the gradual assimilation of the WTBS dogma's into the mainstream (if one can make that leap), considering that their basic tenants have not really changed that much in over 120 years. In fact they have not sufficiently appologized for radical mistakes like 1975 YET.

I think we are so aware of the lies, we often ignore the fact that this society of 6 million, pretty much carry on like they always have. The more bad press they get, the more hatred displayed toward them, just simply feeds the "persecution" complex they all seem to thrive on.

So I still have my doubts about knocking a few bricks loose, when the entire structure is decayed. They are a different breed from 'other religions'. Compromise was never a word honored or encouraged by jw's. They pretty much have eliminated the word from their 'theocratic warfare' playbook.

I still wonder what is the answer to my questions relating to those now valiantly fighting for reform, will they return to the religion. If so, it throws a new light on the subject.

Danny

DannyBear

Gopher,

***So because the JW organization isn't likely to go away anytime soon, at least it is hoped that the atmosphere for the helpless/innocent children on the inside can be made safer ***

Yes I agree. My entire clan probably numbering in the 40-50, including all the nieces and nephews etc are still for the most part all active jw's. Not to mention my two daughters. So anything that would make their life easier, less guilt ridden would be welcome. Unfortunately the issues now being so fervently faught are not going to change the everyday reality of being a jw.

The issue of disfellowshiping is in minds eye, more compelling more incidious than child abuse or blood transfusions.

Thats just me, though.

Danny

DannyBear

Sentinel,

***I think the main concern for supporting some type of "Reform", is not the fact that we ever would go back ourselves, but that those still "in", might be able to be relieved of the terrible acts of da'g and df'g, and the shunning that goes with it. ***

To me this is a far more devasting policy, far more destructive, leading many more than we know, into depression, guilt, suicide, and other illnesses, than child abuse or the current blood policy of jw's. This one doctrine of seperation, is responsible for more anguish and tears than any other. It imo should be number one on the list of reformers. Sadly that is not the case.

Danny

DannyBear

Outoftheborg,

***Even getting the changes on df ing and blood would bring some relief to us apostates and justify our efforts in that area. ***

My question to the active reformers could be restated: Do they consider themselves 'Apostate' from the WTBS? If not, will they go back when and if they win?

So far no one has answered.

DanTheMan

I wouldn't go back if there was reform, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see reform. I know many JW's that I can't begin to imagine their being able to exist outside of the borg. But it is such a crying shame that many of them have been cut off so severely from loved ones who may have been baptized at 13 and later da'd or got df'd. What a loving religion, forcing a family to shun, as completely as possible, their own flesh and blood, because they reneg'd on a decision they made as a 13 year old. Goddam a 13 year old is a f*cking CHILD by any rational standard. And sometimes those getting baptized are even younger than that. It is truly despicable, there is no possible justification for it.

It is this insane shunning policy that I would like to see changed, exponentially more than any other policy or aspect of the borg. But, considering the now infamous 8/02 KM quoted the infamous 9/81 WT, I consider the org beyond hope, at least in the short term. The newly reinforced hardline shunning policy serves to keep the 2-hour a month, 50-75% meeting attending JW's scared and in the seats. Everything they do is calculated for effect, it is of necessity that they have taken such a hard line. There may be reform down the road, but it is many years away, don't hold your breath folks.

I wonder if in the USSR's final days, if the commie hardliners made strident efforts to restore things to the old ways and put a stop to the Glasnost and Perestroika and all that. Perhaps the current situation in the WT is the last gasp of the Jaracz-ites.

Edited by - dantheman on 9 September 2002 21:33:55

ozziepost

The WTS is a text-book example of a religous group who are locked in a Levitical world where the Christian spirit is a long-term embarrasment to them.

I wish I'd said that!

Pretty neat turn of phrase. I think I've paid too much attention to the Pharisees amongst 'em that I forgot the Levitical angle.

Well done, H.S.!

Cheers, Ozzie

DannyBear

Dantheman,

***forcing a family to shun, as completely as possible, their own flesh and blood, because they reneg'd on a decision they made as a 13 year old. Goddam a 13 year old is a f*cking CHILD by any rational standard. And sometimes those getting baptized are even younger than that. It is truly despicable, there is no possible justification for it.***

Could not improve on the above Dan.

Like JT often says, jw's say 'do it our way or you will die' or something very similar. In fact every religion on the face of the earth, preaches that very same message to some degree or another.

I can no longer identify myself as a 'christian' , athiest, agnostic, or buddah head, zen master, wannabe saved allah praising, religious right wing, left wing, you name it....I want nothing to do with it.....any of it.

Religion has been the most pervasive influence for evil and hate, no matter what name or personality you tack on your god, whenever that god does not speak for him/herself....man decided he had to get in there and explain what god is really trying to say. The Bible a mixed cacophony of .prophetic hogwash, and simlistic contradictory assertions of men. who imo had no more inspiration than guys like L Ron Hubbard or Jules Vern.

Danny

BeautifulGarbage

.Hi Danny,

At this point, I don't care. Reform, or the whole damn thing crashing down.

What I do care about is people being hurt, dying, and families being destroyed.

If either one stops the above, then I wholeheartedly support it.

DannyBear

BG,

Amen.

I guess my only excuse is 'Inquiring minds wish to know'.

But nobody seems to have an answer. Poor me. ;)

Regards,

Danny

Reforming the IREFORMABLE?

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