JW's are semi-trinitarians and do not understand the Sacret Secret

paradisebeauty

I have been searching pro and anti arguments for trinity, and found out there are anti-trinitarians who believe Jesus did not preexist before his human life. And I am thinking, it kind of makes sense.

What if Yahweh created a second Adam. He would have really been the only begotten son of God, and His firstborn.

And this would have been proof for satan that it is possible that a perfect human being can remain loyal to God, that His creation was not flawed.

If an angel came from heaven to be "incarnated" or "transferred" in a human body, that would have not proved that real humans were capable of being loyal.

But if a second Adam (Jesus) was created, wow, there was no guarantee of the outcome. That would show that God had trust in His human creation, despite everything, and that He really took a risk with Jesus.

Plus, If we think about it, in the old testament there were so many times when the second child was put before the first one. Jacob before Esau, Abel before Cain, Ephraim before Manaseh. This must have been prophetic.

And Jesus was the perfect man who was loyal to God till the end, unlike Adam. - this showed Satan that a man can be loyal and also offered the necessary sacrifice that was needed for others to be saved.

And God rewarded Jesus by not only resurrecting him, but by making him a new glorified creation. ( I also believe that the jw story that God made Christ's body dissapear and then made him appear in different human bodies to the disciples is just weird)

My personal opinion is that God created a new type of being that somehow can travel between earth ad heaven, Jesus was the first one and the other christians will be transformed in the same type of being at the rapture. And eventually I think all people in the everlasting Kingdom will be (after the 1000 years). - Speaking of "making all things new"! I think this also has to do with the sacret secret (revealed only after Acts and of which Paul says that if Satan knew, he would not have crucified Jesus) that the jw's are not getting at all - the new creation seams to them so amazing that they think it is limited in number - 144000. They are so wrong! All true christians will be like that.

So if from the first Adam we are linked by flash and he transmits us death, to the second Adam, Jesus, we can be linked by FAITH and he transmits us everlasting life! - Romans 10:9,10 and Titus 3:5 ; 2 Corinthians 5:17

I am still researching this subject. What do you think?

cofty

I know that there never was an Adam. There was no fall from perfection and no need of redemption.

We are not imperfect sinners. Our ancestors were fish and before that they were prokaryotes. We are amazing and wonderful.

These are not opinions they are facts.

Whatever ideas you come up with about supernatural things must be consistent with known facts.

Did you also know that there is no mention of Satan before the Babylonian exile? God had no nemesis in the older parts of the OT. Exiled Jews brought home the idea of a Devil from the Zoroastrians they met by the Rivers of Babylon - where we sat down - oh there we wept - when we remembered Zion.

FayeDunaway

You have some interesting thoughts, but Where does john 1:1 fit into this theory? In the beginning the word was, and the word was with god, and the word was god.

Also colossians where it says jesus created all things.

Jesus is the only begotten son of God because man begets man, but God begets god. Jesus is the only begotten son of God because he is the the only one in the same substance of his being, and exact image.

cofty

It is impossible to state the trinity in your own words without contradicting yourself or falling into heresy.

Go ahead and try it.

paradisebeauty

Hi Faye,

I am not 100% sure of this and I am still researching.

However, I've been reading some of the verses that support the trinity and Jesus's preexistence explained from another point of view. One of the views is here: http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/but-what-about-john-1-1

And I think "all things created by and for him" can refer to the "new creation"

More here: http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/colossians-1-15-20

Of course these are not the only interpretations, but it is a possibility.

Village Idiot

paradisebeauty:

"My personal opinion is that God created a new type of being that somehow can travel between earth ad heaven, Jesus was the first one and the other christians will be transformed in the same type of being at the rapture."

Actually the fallen angels in Genesis chapter 6, before the flood, managed to incarnate themselves on Earth and even have hybrid offspring.

Diogenesister

Cofty...did you some folks still have gill marks, just on the top of their ears...we are the men from Atlantis!! So...wasnt jesus mum Mary?In which hes only half perfect. If not, if he was 'begotten' somehow just transferred into marys womb (ie shes a surrogate)in was sense does that vindigate jahs sovereignty as jesus is not a man, so no man has remained perfectly loyal (hes an angel..its cheating).Reckon judas is the real sacrifice as someone had to do it..and be damned.Of course all this is just Babylonian as the man Coffy said.

And I just got a new idea. Satan and his angels did that first, I think. Would it had been ok for the son of God to come on Earth the same way? Just an idea...

God ... maybe I am getting too many ideas lately.

JW's are semi-trinitarians and do not understand the Sacret Secret

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