WT article on Esther: dead wrong.

by JeffT 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    JeffT says:

    Our Pastor said that a careful reading of the Hebrew reveals that the command the King sent to Vashti was "come up here wearing the crown and nothing else." Vashti rebelled at the idea of parading herself naked in front of her husbands drunken friends, and lost her position because she did the RIGHT thing.

    .... [The WTS] totally missed what was going on with the drinking and the subtleties in the Kings command to Vashti,

    That's the most absurd thing I've heard in a long time. The story of Esther presents the King as a sober, principled man. Why not read the account and see. Your "Pastor" lied! The leaders of Christendom are good at twisting God's word. I've seen them do it hundreds of times.

    Friday

    .

    Edited by - Yadirf on 30 August 2002 16:3:57

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    The leaders of Christendom are good at twisting God's word. I've seen them do it hundreds of times.

    Right. Providing you define "twisting God's word" as "disagreeing with ridiculous Watchtower interpretations".

    We know that the Watchtower leaders are liars, it's been proven time and again on this forum. Why don't you offer us some proof that JeffT's pastor is lying?

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    These guys were drinking for seven days! No way they were sober.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Why don't you offer us some proof that JeffT's pastor is lying?

    I just did, Donkey's Butt!

    Must I repeat:

    The story of Esther presents the King as a sober, principled man. Why not read the account and see.

    Or maybe it's simply that you CAN'T read. LOL!

    Friday

    .

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    I just did, Donkey's Butt!

    Must I repeat:

    The story of Esther presents the King as a sober, principled man. Why not read the account and see.

    Or maybe it's simply that you CAN'T read. LOL!

    Oh. I see. It's proven because YOU said so. And Jeff's pastor is lying because YOU said so.

    You should get a job writing for the Watchtower. Your logic and level of evidence matches theirs nicely.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Neon,

    You, obviously, have NEVER read the book of Esther. You need to before you enter a discussion with sombody who knows its contents, due to the fact that he HAS read it.

    .

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    Actually, Friday, I have read the book of Esther. I've also read the Watchtower's self-glorifying crap about what it means.

    But that isn't the point. My point was that you called JeffT's pastor a liar. That's not a nice thing to call someone, if it isn't true.

    Now, as I read Jeff's comments, I noticed that he said that his pastor brought out some points that he found interesting, based upon the wording in the original Hebrew. I also noticed that Jeff said that his pastor has a theology doctorate and is fluent in both Greek and Hebrew.

    Your knee-jerk reaction, in typical Watchtower-drone fashion, was to call him a liar because he disagreed with the interpretation of the text advanced by the masters of your faith in Brooklyn.

    So, I'm calling you on it. If you really think he's a liar, you are morally obligated to do two things:

    1. You need to prove him wrong in his understanding of the Hebrew text. You can do this by demonstrating your own superior knowledge of Hebrew (*cough*), or you can call upon the works of experts in the language. Either way, you must build a substantial case that the meaning he took from his understanding of the Hebrew terms is inaccurate.

    2. After you have done that, you need to build a case against him to show that he maliciously and deliberately distorted the meaning of the scripture, when he knew or should have known better. After all, you didn't claim that he was "mistaken," you called him a "liar," and that implies a bad motive. So you must demonstrate that such a bad motive exists.

    What's that? You don't know squat about the Hebrew text of Esther, and don't know anybody who does? And you've never met Jeff's pastor, or even heard of him prior to this thread, and so couldn't possibly comment on his motives? That's what I thought. So you owe both Jeff and his pastor an apology.

    Remember Proverbs 18:13: "He who answers before listening - that is his folly and his shame."

    Now, the only other question I have is, is having "folly" and "shame" equivalent to being a "Donkey's Butt"?

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Rabbinacal Tradition understands this verse just as JeffT laid it out, that Xerxes 
    wanted his wife to appear ONLY in her crown and without her clothes. Regardless of what 
    the hebrew may or may not reveal (I think it can go either way) 
    the midrash that accompanies it, for as for back as we can see,
    is that Vashti was in this one case a virtuous woman who refused her husbands request to appear naked in front of 
    all the king's friends. 
     
    Friday,
    Do the Hebrew and Greek scholars at WTS have a different understanding of the text in question? Oh, Oh, 
    my bad, I forgot, the WTS doesn't have any REAL Scholars. 
  • nancee park
    nancee park

    The Hebrews were given Persian names as well as their Hebrew names. Thus Vashti was the Persian name given to the Hebrew heroine by the royal court. Being named after one of the gods/goddesses was not unusual. For example in the Greek scriptures the Christian Apollas was named after the god Apollo. Similarly with Modercai versus Marduk etc. Therefore the story of Esther is not automatically discounted as some of you atheists like to make it out.

  • Desilusionnee
    Desilusionnee

    Interesting discussion!

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