Will the resurrected marry/have children?

by davidmitchell 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    The WTS sure has a history of flip flopping on this doctrine.

    Back in 1941, the stance was that marriage would occur after Armageddon - in the New World. The children were told not to marry, and that their mates would be selected for them in the New World.

    A while back, I listened to Judge Rutherford's main talk on Sunday to the children at the ST. Louis summer convention in 1941 and these are the notes I made at the time. Sorry for the length.

    ******

    The talk was heavy on parental obligation, even though the talk was directed to the children. The children, though, were treated as though they were the special ones - the ones chosen to put the new Kingdom in place, the ones 'selected' to be the children of the King.

    Near the beginning of the talk, the children are told about Adam - they are told that Adam was killed by God because of disobedience. Adam was selfish. And then Rutherford slipped in a little comment that I almost missed because he pauses after the first part of the sentence, and then drops his voice and says, speaking of Adam's death punishment and selfishness (around the 8:40 mark... ) :

    ...he was selfish, and that unfailing rule...that applies to all who follow us in the courts.

    He emphasizes that Christ Jesus the King "is present" and has been present since 1914. The paternalistic nature of the Society's Government is stressed - each time Rutherford says "paternalistic", he emphasizes the word. And when Rutherford speaks of the ransom sacrifice, it follows one of the many references to obedience. Just like God killed Adam, he also killed/ransomed his other son too. Full obedience to the Law of Jehovah is stressed - obedience is the theme of the talk.

    The children are told that "if you hope to live you will willingly give yourself to Jehovah". The parents are told to "constantly keep the name of Jehovah before the children" and to "show love by instilling the children with thoughts of Theocratic government". And "teach" and "in this, Do Not Fail - keep constantly before them the Kingdom".

    The children are told to "obey your parents in the Lord". This is emphasized - in the Lord - because then Rutherford asks what about "if your parents aren't 'in the Lord'?" and this is what he tells them 'then...get someone else!" here he pauses a little bit and completes his sentence in a quieter voice, while the applause mounts: "...to instruct you in the Lord."

    The children are told that they have a "bounden duty" to carry the message and "you will do so willingly" because..."it is a privilege" and they will be given "safety and life" in the Theocracy.

    It is in this talk that Rutherford tells the children that "marriage is a mockery" and that marriage will be "sacred under God in the New World" and that a woman/wife is "a bag of bones and a hank of hair". That last comment, by the way, was followed with thunderous applause from the 115,000 who were listening.

    Rutherford speaks of the separation of goats and sheep and makes a comment about "billy goats" smelling. This is a direct reference to one of his quotes he made earlier in a another talk when he was speaking of the necessity of attacking the Catholic Church - which was another running theme of the Assembly that accused the Catholics of being a 'fifth column'. He had made this comment in a previous talk at the assembly that seems to tie the Jews and the Catholic priests together:

    The attack we have got to make is just what Jesus did. You know that when Jesus was on earth the religionists wore long robes. They didn't have much of lace curtains at that time; they wore phylacteries, greased their head with goat grease, and smelled a good deal like billies. And, no doubt, that is where Jesus got the thought that it was a 'goat' class. He meant the Jews of that class of billy-goats with long whiskers, and long faces that smelled to the top of the mountain.

    He had made the reference to the 'goat class' when he was speaking to the children because he was telling them about the 'selection process' that was going to occur once the Theocratic Government was established. The children were told that they wouldn't marry until "the Lord will select for marriage". In the "new world", the children would have mates "selected" for them that were suitable for them. And Rutherford said that this selection process was going to be done by the helper class - the Jonabads. They were the ones who were going to do the selection process and they would decide who would marry whom in the Theocratic Kingdom that would be governed by the Watchtower Society. And then, those children would have the perfect children who "would fill the earth". (find this on the audio recording about 33:33) And, they would be joined by "Barak and Deborah" - Rutherford reveals that Deborah is "a real woman".

  • the comet
    the comet
    I agree with jw_rogue. The big a was supposed to be here years ago and as the jw population grows older they don't want to think about the teaching that if you die in this system, no sexy time for you in the paradise. A few years ago I had a elder tell me he just knew jehovah was going to let him get married again to his recently deceased wife when she got resurrected.
  • sowhatnow
    sowhatnow

    well, if were told to wait and see,

    then i guess all we all will wait and see what becomes of everything else as well. so why worry about it.lol

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    Here is the real resurrection:

  • ozbrad
    ozbrad
    My Aunts been married 5 times so I guess she'll get her weekends off in paradise.
  • coalize
    coalize

    Ozbrad,

    With your aunt, coolio will sing "gangbang paradise"...

  • Brock Talon
    Brock Talon

    I just found this thread and wanted to add to it that the main reason I wrote about marriage and the resurrection in my book Journey to God's House was because it was a pretty important topic when I was a young man at Bethel.

    Most of us believed that if we died and were resurrected, we would never be able to marry and to have children, and of course never have sex. Some of us were twenty-something virgins that never had sex to begin with, so the prospect of remaining virgin for eternity was very disconcerting. The Aid Book at that time promoted this belief. All of the elders and Bethel "heavies" promoted this... except one GB that I mention in my book. (He always seemed to have a mind of his own and didn't hesitate to state things his own way, which I also found very interesting.)

    I want to make this clear: this issue was IMPOSSIBLE to ignore as a young JW 30+ years ago. We might be able to look back at this now and laugh about it, but this was not a small deal for me as a young JW. It wasn't for most of my JW friends either, especially us Bethelites who were mostly thinking of remaining at Bethel our whole lives and had a limited prospect of getting married as long as we stayed there. The sacrifices we made to be at Bethel then were not just for this life, but potentially a sacrifice of no sex for eternity! Heavy stuff that, especially if you were as oversexed as I was then.

    For those that notice, my books are mainly about the way the JW faith affected my life and the lives of people around me. I don't focus on doctrinal issues because frankly, most doctrinal issues didn't affect my life. Is God a Trinity or not? How many people go to heaven? Is the soul immortal? Is the GB the Faithful and Discreet Slave? And so, on... these things didn't affect my day to day life one bit. Frankly, they still don't. So, I wrote about the way that the JW teachings and behaviors affected my life. As a result, I realize my books are not as enlightening as many of the excellent ones out there, like those from Franz and Penton, etc. They fill a need that I cannot because I don't have their experiences or qualifications.

    But what I wanted to do was to write about how things affected me personally, and hopefully have that resonate with others who had similar experiences. As a result, my books then don't really try to give answers - they are designed to make you think and come up with your own.

    By DavidMitchell's posting here, I can perceive this: mission accomplished.

    Brock Talon

  • disillusioned 2
    disillusioned 2
    The possibility does not even enter their heads that there may not be an earthly resurrection at all! Even though there are no scriptures referring to a paradise earth. They have held on to Rutherford's teaching for all these years, I guess there's no going back now to what Russell (and most other religions) taught, that EVERYONE had a heavenly hope and not just a select few.
  • Mad Irishman
    Mad Irishman
    Recent talks have outlined that this passage was talking about the anointed and not those resurrected on Earth, so this does not apply anymore.
  • blondie
    blondie

    It's a perfect example of how the WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth.

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