doubts and shunning....shepherding call

by Tornintwo 32 Replies latest members private

  • Tornintwo
    Tornintwo

    So I was visited by a. C.O. and elder...

    I shared my doubts re 3 big issues for me, everyone else will die, family shunning and child abuse...I was very much 'I'm confused, need assistance...' In my attitude, which actually is true.

    i was pleasantly surprised by their reaction, but reading on here it doesn't ring true with what is happening elsewhere in jw land.

    They said re 'everyone else will die' that 'Jehovah is the judge and if anyone says anything other than that then they are putting themselves in the position as judge which is wrong'. So I pointed out that the recent wts are emphasizing that you must be associated with ' Christs brothers' in the time of the end, be in the congregations to receive instruction etc, and how unrealistic that is in countries where there are 1 to 300,000 or more etc, also pointed out the stats on population growth compared to Jw growth....no real answers, just 'trust in jehovah, he is the judge etc' and a lot of emphasis on how Jehovah can draw people using the Internet, relatives living in other lands etc, that the angels are involved..... I said I thought there were lots of sincere people outside JWs and I hope that if this is the truth then Jehovah will make the choice a lot, lot clearer before the end. That I just can't believe a loving God would kill 999 out of 1000. Does someone deserve to die because they were too busy to talk to us on a Saturday morning? It peed me off because the elder said that people in often worked territory have already had a good chance, I said 'they have absolutely no idea what they're saying no too'.

    re family shunning I pointed out that some young people need assistance and support because they are vulnerable and without it could (and has) lead to depression even suicide. The co said it is a personal choice by families how much association they have. I said 'I'd love to see that in the WT' and pointed out the recent wt on not even emailing your df'd kids, again he said it is a personal choice, Is it really? Aren't there sanctions if you choose to associate with a disfellowshipped family member?

    re child abuse they put it down to mistakes made on a local level. They did try the 'don't believe everything you read in the news' tack and I got really peed off at that point, I told them, I've read the actual court documents in the Lopez case and how 9 kids were sodomised over 18 years whilst that brother was appointed as an m.s. Then an elder, even though the elders knew what he had been accused of. How can that happen in Jehovah's organization? I also said, are you questioning the truth of the case just heard by the high court in the UK? If you saw that story in the news about the Catholic Church would you question it? The elder seemed a bit shocked by the reports I was repeating, which he'd clearly never heard about, the c.o. wasn't phased, he was skeptical but again repeated that there are mistakes made on local levels, the brothers are not infallible, the GB is not infallible etc...oh, and that everything gets sorted out by Jehovah in time, sometimes it takes years for things to come out but then the congregation is cleaned up (I'm thinking too bad for the Lopez victims that Jehovah didn't hurry up and sort it out sooner).

    finally I asked about doubts, how it's not fair that some have been df'd just for having differing opinions on doctrines which may even have changed in the past and might well be changed in the future. He said categorically 'we cannot disfellowship anyone for having different private opinions on matters, only if they spread it around and try to encourage others to go against the society's teachings'. Is this true? I thought plenty have been df'd because of different opinions, take Ray Franz and co. Have they softened this stance?

    Generally they were pretty understanding, not police-like at all. I didn't go into too much doctrine, because I thought that would go too far. But I was pleasantly surprised and plan to continue 'not inactive, but not very active' for my families sake whilst I figure things out.

    would welcome your comments


  • cantleave
    cantleave

    ...... the elder said that people in often worked territory have already had a good chance, I said 'they have absolutely no idea what they're saying no too'.

    Have they considered that by actually contacting people is in effect delivering a death sentence? I was told those that had not been contacted would not be treated unfairly be Jehovah, it was those that had been given the chance and rejected the truth that would be reprehensible. So to give people the best chance of survival.....don't preach to them!!

  • notoneoftheboys
    notoneoftheboys

    Do not be misled.

    If you speak of a teaching you disagree with more than once in the hearing of another or worse 2 witnesses the elders will be round to see you. What they do not tell you is that an agreement has been reached by the BOE already before they meet with you, to form a judicial committee, and is put in place. If immediately after meeting with you they determine you have apostate leanings with the JC ready to go you can be disfellowshipped very quickly.

    If you talk with D/FD friends or relatives you can be disfellowshipped. There has been no softening in the GB and now its all private... rank and file kept in the dark. Former elder for many years I am, faded after I saw so much hypocrisy from DO CO and BOE

  • Lieu
    Lieu

    Remember when the Disciples were whining about some guy who was not a member of their group( "not following with us") casting out demons in Jesus' name? Jesus basically told them to zip it since those who are not against us are for us. -Luke 9:49,50

    JWs, at times, are so lost from Christ's message that it's sad.

  • disposable hero of hypocrisy
    disposable hero of hypocrisy

    I think it very much depends on your local body of elders. You seem to have people that like you and want to help you. No witch hunt here. I had the same. Some are unfortunate though.

    Definitely true about not SPREADING doubt though, if you keep it to yourself you should be ok to carry on or fade.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Tornintwo. ,

    I`m sorry to say this my friend ,but sooner or later if you keep this up you will be in front of a Judiicial committee , and being charged with apostasy .You don`t believe me ? wait and see .

    What they say to your face , and what they do behind your back , can be two different things.

    You will see.

    To clarify , you can have doubts , so long as you keep them to yourself , the minute you speak of these doubts to anybody else you are causing dissension among the congregation and you must be brought under control .

    How ? by threats and intimidation .

    We will -DF - you , you will have no contact with friends and family , unless the most necessary contact is needed ,with family.

    Otherwise you will have no contact with anybody who is not a family member , to shun them is a loving provision , to prove to them their error of their ways so they will come back to Jehovah and the truth..

    If you want to sell your soul , then by all means give your life over to Jehovah`s Witnesses , but if not stick around here and learn more about the truth that leads to the truth .

    I hope you stick around

    smiddy

  • 1Averagejoe
    1Averagejoe

    According to your wordings on doubts his response was different " private" opinions on matters. In other words don't spread it! You may have planted some seed of thought into them, maybe the C.O has his own "private" opinion but he is a company man. Thought they may still remember and check up on you about who you've spoken to. Rare reaction from those serving as C. O. and when you get a new one this may still come back to you... Badly.

    The C. O newbies have more authority than those prior to them... And boy are they trigger happy!

  • Bonsai
    Bonsai

    What Smiddy said.

    You and I are in a similar situation -- millimeters from a JC meeting asking us if we believe that God is directing this organization.

    I remember sharing my doubts with the COBE. I said, "I have no confidence in the accuracy of 1914". He said, "Then just leave it alone and leave it to Jehovah. As long as you don't spread your doubts, you are not evil for having them." Some elders really are genuinely nice.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Theocratic warfare strategy(TM). It keeps bums on seats and tickles the ears.

    I rest my case.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Ask him where in the publications it says that it is up to the family member to choose for themselves whether or not to shun a disfellowshipped family member. Also ask him where in the publications does it say that non JW people will survive Armageddon.

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