I NEED your advice!!!!! Please reply!

by worldly girl 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • worldly girl
    worldly girl

    Ok here's the deal..... I've not had much to do w/ my parents since Jan '02 when my mother and I got into over her force feeding my 3 year old the "troof". When I respectfully ask her on behalf of myself and my non JW husband, to respect us enough to let us teach our child about religion.... her response was "well if you don't want her around our religion, then don't bring her around us". AND during the course of this conversation she stated this in the most hateful of tones at least 4 or 5 times to both me and my husband, in front of our daughter.... Well I was FURIOUS.... that she would say such a thing and openly chose to have nothing to w/ my daughter.. without being given an ultimatum<sp> to choose. Long story short I confronted her about it and a few other issues, including my sexual abuse as a child from a few of "the friends"... To which she replied " boy those apostates sure do have a hold on you..." which I replied to,"no mom I chose to think for myself and not let a bunch of little old men TELL me what I should do in MY relationship with GOD." So needless to say the conversation eneded w/ her telling me when I'm ready to let her see my daughter to call her.... NOW, I received an email from my father (since my christian mother is shunning me, I guess) on Tuesday asking to come see my daughter on Saturday.... SO here's where I need your advice..... Should I ignore them, should I tell them what kind of hypricitical, insensitive "having no natural affection" JERKS I think they are, or should I GIVE them the ultimatum that they are seeking???? I just don't know what to do.....

    Thanks for letting me vent, and offering your suggestions!!


  • JG

    Hey Wg,
    I think that they have blinked. Stand your ground and stick to your no religion discussion. But they are initiating the contact. Let him or them see her, but no religion. If they bring it up tell them I thought we had discussed this, I raise my child you just love her, NO Religion discussion. If they want to discuss religion they have to discuss it with you. But they are not allowed to discuss it with your child.

    Good luck.

  • RedhorseWoman

    Perhaps you could arrange a "supervised" visit of sorts. Allow them to see their grandchild, but only if you "chaperone" them.

    Let them know that proselytizing will not be allowed, and if they do so, ask them to leave.

  • DJ

    Dear Wordly Girl,

    I can offer you a suggestion but of course you'll need to decide what is right for you! I suppose that you could tell your parents that your child is 'your responsibilty' and that includes teaching spiritual issues. If they really want to see their grandchild then they need to respect your wishes.

    Personally, I do not allow my family to teach my children. They used to, and I put and end to it by using the advice that I gave you above. It's not ok for me to leave my kids alone with them though. I did once and they were 'preached to'. It really depends on how much you desire their involvement in your life

    I wish you the best! I know it can be brutal. Keep your chin up and love in your heart!

    Love, dj

  • Valis

    Hey WG...I found myself in a similar situation with my parents. It all started one afternoon when my daughter saw a dead bird and said he was with Jehovah...you know how five year olds make wacky connections...well I proceeded to tell her that there was no Jehovah and that the bird was just going to a better place and become dirt again so the earth could keep living. She started crying! I was so pissed I could feel my ears burning...SO I got on the phone and called my parents. I simply asked them to respect my right as I was the father of my kids and that would they please not take my kids to the meeting. To me this was not an unreasonable request and would have shown they did indeed respect my right as a parent. Well they took offense and my big redneck dad decided to get uppity and say "Well what are you going to do about it?" I said well then you won't see them anynmore and that's that! My mother wanted to know why I was so "full of hate". They got pissed and hung up on me. It took them a while, but thankfully for me the mother of my children also took this stance and they found other ways and times to spend w/thier first grandkids rather than tow the party line. Lucky thing for them cuase there are a line of people a mile long waiting to fill those roles for my kids...You know how baby rock stars are...tons of groupies...It would be my advice to you to follow the same course unless you want your children to become delusional freaks waiting on Armageddon for the rest of thier lives.


    District Overbeer of the "keep your grubby theocratic hands off" class

  • blacksheep

    WG, that's a tough one. As a disclaimer, you and I are in similar boats, although you have more to be upset about. Your mother's comments would burn me to no end.

    A few things I'd consider (maybe discuss with dh) are the following:

    1. I would make it clear (somehow) to them that you DO NOT want a repeat of the scene your mom created last time.

    2. I would make it clear that you DO NOT want mom or dad to bring up anything about religion: you don't want your daughter indoctrinated. You are raising her in the manner YOU choose to, along with teaching her what you think is appropriate about God, religion, etc., and do NOT want her confused.

    I'm really so sorry about the sexual abuse issue...and the fact that your mother so heartlessly dismisses it. I hope you have received (or will get) counseling for it!!

    On a personal note (and again, my disclaimer, because I have similar issues to yours which I haven't quite resolved, but have sought some good advise from close friends as well as professionals!), I would be HIGHLY disappointed in your mother's attitude. To dismiss your abuse issues, even IF she's brainwashed by JW propaganda, is unforgiveable to me. I would therefore use that knowledge to make sure my child is protected from any possible harm. I'm certainly NOT suggesting that she would allow such harm to occur, but I'd make darned sure she's not in a position of exposing your daughter to any JW meetings/gatherings, etc., outside of your presence. It just sounds to me like she'd take the opportunity to do what she feels is "right" by indoctrinating your child against your wishes, and perhaps exposing her to some things you don't wish her to be expsed to.

    And you know what, I think I'd make that clear to her as well. I know it sounds quite callous, but from my perspective the JW's think they are "protecting" children and doing the right thing. The need to know that many of us consider our children as needing protection from THEM at this point. The recent pedophile scandal, and the shunning practices, etc., are good examples of this.

    Best of luck on whatever you decide. I KNOW it's a tough call...

  • Hmmm

    Worldly Girl,

    This is a tough one.

    The temptation is to tell them they can see your daughter when they (or at least christian mom) apologize for their behavior.

    There is the alternate temptation to take the high road and show them what being a christian is all about. Something tells me this lesson would be lost on them.

    Were it me, I don't think I would punish my daughter or father for the comments made by mother. I wouldn't even want to punish her. She is afraid for you--afraid that you're never coming back to Jehovah, and you'll die at Armageddon. That fear often is transformed into anger, and indignant anger when channeled through a lifetime of bOrg conditioning.

    Whether you want to demant an apology is up to you. At the least, I think I would politely yet firmly make it clear to them that if they do decide to visit, I must still demant that they not try to indoctrinate my daughter against my wishes. In fact, I would probably request a moritorium on all discussion of religion while they're over.

    Please let us know what you decide, and how it goes.


  • jgnat

    Yeah, it looks like they may be having second thoughts on their rash words. It might help if you had a long-term strategy on how you are going to deal with your parents. DJ started a great thread on her story, and used this strategy to bring her parents back:

    To Win my Loved Ones Back

    1. It was a trial for me of extreme patience and tongue holding
    2. I simply bombarded them with loving words to defeat their nastiness. The key was just never ending love.
    3. Silence in the face of their ranting is helpful sometimes
    4. other times just a gentle word or two would do.
    5. They are victims, self-righteous as they may be, they are still victims.
    6. To gently show the love of Christ through words or deeds proved to tame them eventually.
    7. I do whatever needs to be done for my parents because I love them despite their nonsense
    8. There is no mystery here, just doing for others what I would want done for me, loving them

    1. I suggest starting with an encouraging word: "I am so happy to hear from you and that you want to have a relationship with your granddaughter".
    2. Remind them of your stand, "Please remember that you are not to bring up religion in front of her"
    3. Be clear about the consequences "If you do, I will have to ask you to leave right away"
    4. But let them know you are hoping for the best, "I know you don't want to cause a scene in front of your lovely granddaughter. I am really looking forward to your visit."
  • Hyghlandyr


    If your mom won't listen to you about the sex abuse you suffered at the hands of the witnesses, will she or your father really protect them from other wicked men in their congregation?

    (No need for me to comment on the rest because others have stated very well some things you can do...I just wanted to bring this one point up jesb...hugs see you in yahoo)

  • worldly girl
    worldly girl

    Thank you all for your suggestions.... There are a few things that I wanted to mention, and got sidetracked....

    1. At the end of the conversation when she said I can call her.... I stated to her that "I won't be calling so don't expect the phone to ring".

    2. The reason that my father is calling is (and I base this on what I've witnessed in their relationship most of my life) because my mother is trying to make every one she has told i.e: my holier than thou JW sister and trash of the earth worldly sister in law and the countless JW "friends", believe that SHE is the victim here, by using my father as the "spokesperson".... so that when I refuse talking to him, that all of her allies will view me a hateful.... This is just based on the history of situations w/ my older sister (inactive) and older brother (df'ed) and their children.

    3. It really burns me up that they want to try to have a relationship with my child, yet I am their child and they want NOTHING to do with me. That makes me wonder if when my child is old enough, will they treat her the same way if she makes her OWN choices???

    It's not that I just want to hurt them b/c I'm angry about the past, it's more a matter of I DO NOT want my child to grow up with the same assumption that I did, that is that they KNOW and have UNCONDITIONAL love for us... when in fact they don't even understand the meaning of the word. I WILL NEVER have unconditional love for my child... who is a part of me. I also do not want her to have the same issues w/ lack of self confidence that I and my siblings have because of our parents who always made us feel "not good enough", and that we would NEVER live up to JW standards....

    I'm just so pulled... At times I will hear my little one in her room playing with her little pink cell phone, saying " Hi Nana, Hi Pops, when are you coming to get me".... and I cry EVERY time. I don't know how to explain to a 3 yr old that I feel that her grandparents are a negative influence in her life??? Besides that I'm afraid to leave her with my parents because they couldn't or wouldn't protect me or my brother from sexual abuse at the hands of "friends" and we are THEIR children.

    Any other suggestions, besides just not responding, and putting it off... cuz that's what I'm leaning towards....

    Edited b/c I'm scatterbrained today!! :)

    Edited by - Worldly Girl on 22 August 2002 14:12:58

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