by Pathofthorns 22 Replies latest jw friends
Going back through old threads. This is now four years into the first five years. I was curious as to how those that posted here look at where the org has gone over these last four years. Also curious as to how people feel today about where the WTBTS will be in the next five years.
I do beleive that we see some of the trouble that was thought to happen. But there doe not seem to have been a big sweeping change.
Country "Prophetess" Girl
Thanks Country Girl,
Wonder if there is away to slow them down in the undeveloped countries?
Triple A
I predict that my JW exwife will soon be apostatized and leave the borg.
Corvin
Especially with the younger GB members now on board they can continue to claim authority over us as God's 'Faithful and Discreet Slave' and do as they wish with us until they they too pass away.
A lot of Witnesses and exes tend to think this way, but in doing so, they are really subscribing to the Society's teaching about a special anointed "class" limited to 144,000 members. Obviously, if all the seats are filled, at some point, new members must stop appearing. That would leave the Society's leadership with a vacuum that would need to be filled by members of the "other sheep". The problem with this scenario is that there really is no scriptural support for the Watchtower's two-hope teaching; the "anointed" are an imaginary class, and there is no actual calling from God being fulfilled. This being the case, new members of the "anointed" can continue to appear ad infinitum, especially since the only requirement for membership is that one declares himself to be so. In the absence of a major doctrinal overhaul, when the younger members of the governing body age and die, more even younger "anointed" ones will come along to fill the slots. All that will be needed is for the leadership to come up with a semi-convincing explanation as to why new members of the "anointed" class keep appearing, even though the call to that group was supposed to have ended in 1935 - but they've always been good at coming up with cheesy explanations.
I know a lot of people expect the Watchtower to become more mainstream, but I'm not entirely convinced that that will happen any time in the foreseeable future. These are people who have submitted themselves to a particular doctrinal stance, and I'm not sure the leadership has any inclination to change that. The theory has been, for years, that new members of the GB would come along after the old ones died off and make reforms, but we are now in that situation - a significant percentage of GB members are now of the newer, younger variety, and little has changed. The supposed "reforms" on blood and voting are just smoke and mirrors - nothing has actually changed from the viewpoint of those inside the organization. The problem seems to be that the existing GB members are very careful to appoint only new members who think as they do - which will make reform very slow, if it happens at all.
I'm not saying, of course, that reform could not happen - the availability through the internet of information that was once unavailable to the rank and file certainly provides a strong incentive for the leadership to make reforms. But I don't see it as inevitable. The alternate scenario that I see would be a shrinking of the organization to a much smaller core of true believers. The mindset of many, many JW's is that they will follow the organization wherever it goes, so no matter how bad things get, they will not seek other pastures. These are the ones who would form the small core - anyone who possesses the least amount of ability to think independently will eventually move on. The possibility of shunning may hinder that move (and if the shunning doctrine were dropped, I think there would be an instantaneous mass exodus - which is why they can't change it).
Now, of course, it could also go the other way, and they could become mainstream. When you have a group of mindless followers, you can pretty much lead them wherever you want to. And I have no doubt that if the next Watchtower had study articles explaining why Jehovah's Witnesses would now believe in the Trinity, hellfire and the immortal soul, that most JW's would walk out of that week's Watchtower study praising God and the organization for this wonderful "new light". Some might rebel, and decide that the leadership had become apostate, but I think the majority would simply swallow the change and continue to hang on. Again, you would likely see some shrinkage over time from such a move (as in the Worldwide Church of God, which is now about 1/3 of its original size after new leadership embraced evangelical theology).
So, no matter which way it goes, I predict a smaller Watchtower organization in years to come.
Thanks for the thoughtful insight, which is why I like coming to this board.
Concerning your response about the GB. It was my understanding that the younger GB members are being called Chieftains. And this title was being groomed for being able to take over all the duties of the Annointed. I do not know this for a fact, but that is something I read somewhere along the way.
I have trouble with the WTBTS becoming main stream. If they do, what would be the reason for coming to them? Why buy their books, when they have nothing earthshakenly different than other religions. It is possible, The Seventh Day Adventist are supposedly recognizing that Jesus is Divine and they are not the only True Religion.
There is something to say for staying small in size. ONe things that makes the Marines different from the Army Soldier is their smaller size. Which gives them an eletist outlook, so they always try harder.
Triple A
It was my understanding that the younger GB members are being called Chieftains. And this title was being groomed for being able to take over all the duties of the Annointed. I do not know this for a fact, but that is something I read somewhere along the way.
The "Chieftain" class is considered to be made up of all non-anointed elders, who are being groomed for leadership in the new system, according to the Watchtower of 1999:
*** w99 3/1 p. 16 "The Temple" and "the Chieftain" Today ***Clearly, the chieftain has some responsibility among God?s people. In the outer courtyard, he sits in the porch of the East Gate. (Ezekiel 44:2, 3) This would indicate a position of oversight, similar to that of the older men in Israel who sat at the gate of the city and rendered judgment. (Ruth 4:1-12; Proverbs 22:22) Who among the other sheep hold offices of oversight today? Elders with an earthly hope who have been appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) So the chieftain class is now being groomed with the prospect of later serving in an administrative capacity in the new world.
You may be thinking of the so-called "Nethinim" class:
*** w92 4/15 p. 17 Jehovah?s Provision, the "Given Ones" ***
22
In ancient times, priests and Levites continued to serve among the Jews. (John 1:19) Today, however, the remnant of spiritual Israel on earth must go on decreasing. (Contrast John 3:30.) Finally, after the demise of Babylon the Great, all 144,000 ?sealed ones? will be in heaven for the marriage of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:1-3; 19:1-8) But now the other sheep must go on increasing. The fact that some of them, comparable to the Nethinim and the sons of the servants of Solomon, are now being assigned weighty responsibilities under the oversight of the anointed remnant does not cause them to be presumptuous or feel self-important. (Romans 12:3) This gives us confidence that as God?s people "come out of the great tribulation," there will be experienced men?"princes"?prepared to take the lead among the other sheep.?Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 32:1; compare Acts 6:2-7.
Again, the role of the "other sheep" in leadership is deferred until after all "anointed" have left the earth, after the "great tribulation." So as long as Armageddon doesn't come, more "anointed" can continue to appear and to be exalted to positions of leadership. And, let's face it - there is a strong incentive for ambitious circuit and district overseers to find themselves as being "chosen" for the "anointed" class. After all, no one can really falsify their claim, and being of the "anointed" makes it possible for them to continue their upward mobility in the organization.
The Seventh Day Adventist are supposedly recognizing that Jesus is Divine and they are not the only True Religion.
The SDA's have for many years recognized the deity of Jesus Christ (though they paradoxically also teach that he is Michael the archangel) and the Trinity doctrine. They have also taught that individuals from other religions may be saved, but if they have made any movement away from their position that they are the one true "remnant" church, I have yet to hear of it. I realize that a number of factions have developed among the SDA's in the last few decades, and that some are more liberal, but I believe that the official positions of the church general conference remain largely unchanged.
Thanks again NeonMadman, for the reseach and clairification.
I did have one thought as I went through your post. The WTBTS after the death of the first and at the time only "Faithful and Discreet Slave" claimed that Charles T. Russell continued to guide the Bible Students. Till Rutherford was able to move it to the organization and the "Anointed" class. Do you think that once the "Anointed" class is gone from earth, they would continue thier guidance through the "Nethinim" class and "Chieftain" class?
Again this is my understand. To become a member of the "Anointed" class today, an "Anointed" has to die apostate. If there are little over 8,000 "Anointed" today. The most that could continue on would have to 8,000 if all pass away.
Since the WTBTS does not have a list of who makes up this class. A list should be started by those whom post here and attend the memorial that observe who today partake of the elements. It may take a while, but at some point when new ones claim to be "Anionted" we could ask which name on the list they are replacing. Also provide it to the WTBTS so they know as well.
Fifteen years ago I thought that the WBTS would become more mainstream. But it hasn't happened and instead it has kept its grip while being beset with scandal and the eroding effect of the internet. I think a more likely future is a schism along the lines of 1917 that will produce a "reformed JW" religious organization that will maintain the "basic true teachings" like the denial of the Trinity, immortality of the soul, hell, that we are in the time of the end, etc. but ditch the harmful repression and Talmudic rules and the presumptuous FD&S/God's organization teachings. That is, a more mainstream group like the SDAs or Christadelphians with a distinctive "Witness" flavor. I don't think the JW movement would just disappear. More likely that a movement for reform would rise (or is currently rising) within the Witnesses that would lead to mass disfellowshippings in a short period of time, creating a base for the new more mainstream church, and future disfellowshipped ppl would feel attracted to the group as manifesting a far more Christian attitude while keeping the basic doctrines....
I think they will come up with another date for BigA. They have ALWAYS had a date. How else will they get an increase in membership and an increase in SALES. People will get bored without it.
JMO
