Don't believe in Evolution or Creation. (page 2)

Gedanken

dubla,

It is only ludicrous if you're ignorant of what a theory is. It seems that you are.

Gedanken

sleepy

By the way I hold no religious conviction, and have no desire to see evolution or the idea of a God being quashed.My feeling are based on the evidence I have considered so far.

Gedanken I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic.I have no problem with scientists changing their view , this simply is not an issue for me.Gravity and evolution are two different subjects and I take each on their own merits.

Fe2O3Girl " I would not write off evolutionary theory on the basis of what the Watchtower presented in the "Creation" book." I don't.I once prepeared a letter to send to the society clomplaining of the errors in the "creator book".

metatron

Welcome back, Gedanken

Long time no see.

The problem facing all science is an end to reductionism. I'm surprized
it's taken so long to face this issue. At some point - like quantum
mechanics - you just run out of causes. I believe genetics is
headed towards the same end. I fought this thought for a long time
because the mind doesn't want to let go of determinism. Einstein
felt this way.

In the final analysis, the universe "just is" and our efforts to
make sense of it all end in speculative theories no one can prove.

As to evolution controversies, I think the mistake is the emphasis
on it being a 'random' process - with molecules whacking into each
other like rambling billiard balls somehow resulting in life.
The universe simply produces life where ever it can in a manner
no different from producing new atoms whereever it can.

I marvel at the non- reduceable character of life in all its
forms. Consider the two siamese twins joined at the head:
They functioned and lived with conjoined skulls and marvelously
shared blood vessels. Did this amazing morphology emerge from a
pre-existing genetic script that ordained all these details?
Did a personal Creator produce them? Neither makes much sense
to me.

Life just is

metatron

Gedanken

Ferric oxide girl,

Good points - you post on the Guardian talkboads now and then, correct?

Gdnkn

Francois

Iron Oxide girl?

That just BEGS an explanation. Will it be forthcoming? I hope so, since I am et up with curiosity.

-francois

sleepy

Gedanken" The point being that the fact of evolution is almost as obvious as is the fact of gravity..."

The fact that things can evolve, is not the same as the idea that everything we see is the result of the same kind of evolution.Likewise those wishing to prove we are created do not need to prove that things can be created , but that all living things were.

Gedanken

Sleepy,

While I agree that gravity and evolution are two different things, I was focussing on what a "theory" is. Your post actually was talking about the theory of evolution - that is, the explanation of how evolution happened. That's a matter of debate. The theory of gravity, similarly, is an explanation of the fact of gravity. Evolution is a fact. How it happened is much less well understood. Just because we don't understand how something happens (e.g., gravity) doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (e.g., gravity.)

Metatron - thanks! How are you? Good points - the ultimate cause, if any, is a real puzzler. Evolution wouldn't happen if it were simply random, entropy would take care of that. But selection for superior fitness pulls out of the randomness the superior individuals. A whole branch of computer science is based on that, and used for such mundane things as designing the most efficient irrigation systems!

gedanken

Edited by - Gedanken on 7 August 2002 12:27:18

sleepy

Gedanken"While I agree that gravity and evolution are two different things, I was focussing on what a "theory" is. Your post actually was talking about the theory of evolution - that is, the explanation of how evolution happened. That's a matter of debate. The theory of gravity, similarly, is an explanation of the fact of gravity. Evolution is a fact. How it happened is much less well understood. Just because we don;t understand how something happens (e.g., gravity) doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (e.g., gravity.)"

The point i'm focusing on is what evolution (in the sense of random mutations selected by hospitable environments) can cause and under what circumstances.For instance gravity can cause two objects to be attracted to each other, but that doesnt prove that a certain two object were attracted to each other soley under the pull of gravity or indead by gravity at all.

Satanus

Someone who claims to not know what to believe can claim to be agnostic. It means without knowledge, as opposed to the gnostics, who tried to explain their beliefs in the psuedo scientific terms of 2000 yrs ago. Being agnostic leaves a person w an open mind. Bertrand russell, a great thinker, was agnostic.

Some evolutionists attack anything of a spiritual nature almost as much as fundies attack evolution/atheism. I could understand it as a kind of allergic reaction, i suppose.

SS

Matty

I agree SaintSatan, I find that many people with the two opposing points of view show the kind of patronising condescending bigotry that makes objective debate near enough impossible.

Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.

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