144,000 pagans or annointed

by JCISGOD98 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • JCISGOD98
    JCISGOD98

    144,000 ANOINTED PAGANS GOING TO HEAVEN HOW CAN OUR JEHOVAH GOD ALLOW THIS?

    The Watchtower Society teaches that the true church existed at the time that the book of Acts was formulated and that the Jerusalem church had the same kind of organization as the present Watchtower organization, therefore the apostolic church had to be the true church. Charles Russell the first president of the Watchtower believed and taught that the anointed ones, which are the 144,000 who go heaven, began to be chosen just as soon as the church began, and by THE END OF THE FIRST CENTURY MOST OF THEM WERE CHOSEN. The Watchtower of February 1, 1975, page 84 reiterated that Jehovah God started selecting the 144,000 nineteen hundred years ago.

    History tells us that this persecuted church continued for several centuries, so there were many years during which the true church existed and expanded. The Watchtower Society teaches that 144,000 are the worthy ones chosen by God. Then surely the Christians in the early church would be among the 144,000!

    The book of Acts mentions many thousands who were saved during the initial thirty years:

    3,000 (Acts 2:41)

    daily saved (Acts 2:47)

    5,000 saved (Acts 4:4)

    many (Acts 9:42; 17:12; 19:18)

    As many as were ordained to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48)

    Many ten thousands [ lit. myriads] (Acts 21:20. This is a very important verse. In the New World Translation, their version of the bible, it translated thousands in the text, but in the large reference edition of the NWT a footnote reads: Lit. myriads: Ten of thousands. By adding many to tens of thousands you get a very large number of believing Jews, people who are both physical and spiritual Jews).

    Adding together all these mentioned in the book of Acts alone could easily come to one hundred thousand. This does not leave many openings in the 144,000 to be filled. Since the early Christians were persecuted, surely that would make them worthy to be among the 144,000 because they overwhelmingly stood true to the faith.

    Many local churches are mentioned in the New Testament. We know that these were once thriving churches which included many thousands of people. The Bible mentions churches in:

    Rome (Rom. 1:7)

    Corinth (1 Cor. 1:2)

    Galatia (Gal. 1:2)

    Philippi (Phil. 1:1)

    Ephesus (Eph. 1:1)

    Colosee (Col. 1:2)

    Thessalonica (1. Thess. 1:1)

    Crete (Tit. 1:5)

    Pontus, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia (1 Pet. 1:1)

    Smyrna (Rev. 2:12)

    Pergamum (Rev. 2:12)

    Thyatira (Rev. 2:18)

    Sardis (Rev. 3:1)

    Philadelphia (Rev. 3:7)

    Laodicea (Rev. 3:14)

    Even the Watchtowers publication Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand! Acknowledges on page 62, that Christianity was widespread. They quote McClintock and Strongs Cyclopedia (Vol. X, Page 519) which reports: The administration of the younger Pliny as governor of Bithyniawas complicated with matters growing out of the rapid expansion of Christianity and the consequent rage of the heathen population within his province.

    From the Bible and accurate church history we know that there were hundreds of thousands of true believers in the early years of the church. It has been estimated that there were at least 250,000 Jewish Christians alone, and that number may have been as high as one million. One must be impressed by the many hundreds of thousands of martyrs who gave their lives for the faith, especially in the early church. A very conservative estimate would put the early church martyrs at 250,000. Some have mentioned the number as 800,000. (And the martyrs would only be a small fraction of the true and faithful believers of their day.) It is clear from the Bible that all martyrs go to heaven (Rev. 20:4). Revelation 2:10 mentions the Crown of Life which is given to those who are Faithful unto death. From 2 Timothy 4:8 and other passages we deduce that crowns are given to those who go to heaven. And Revelation 6:9-11 makes it clear that those who are slain for the word of God will be in heaven.

    Questions to Ask a Jehovahs Witness:

    1. If the teaching is true that only 144,000 persons will go to heaven, I would like to know how there could possibly be any openings left when Charles Russell came upon the scene in 1880? The book of Acts mentions at least 100,000 people saved, and this was only the beginning of the growth of Christianity. Estimates have it that there were at least 250,000 Jews in the early church, not counting the ten thousands of Gentiles. Also there were over 250,000 martyrs who would surely be included in the 144,000. (In the Watchtower Book, The Finish Mystery , 1917, Charles Russell said there were 861,000 martyrs.) It seems obvious that these openings would all have been filled in the apostolic age or shortly thereafter.

    Typical Response a Jehovahs Witness will give you:

    You must have to realize that the Bible speaks about a falling away, so because of this, the number of genuine early Christians would have declined. Only leaving a few Christians.

    Rebuttal for that response:

    The Bible speaks about a falling away in the END TIMES. Jehovahs Witnesses claim that we are living in the end times now. And remember, in order for a person to fall away he or she must have something to fall away from in the first place. The Watchtower hierarchy claims that in 1919 God chose them to be His Sole channel of Communication to this earth. At that time there were about 20,000 Jehovahs Witnesses. If one adds up the number of those who have joined the Watchtower organization over the years and compares it to the total growth, it is easy to see that at least one third of those falling away is a high percentage! However, even with one third of Jehovahs Witnesses falling away, they have grown from 20,000 in 1919 to five million by 1990, a period of seventy years. If there really was a large falling away in apostolic times as the Watchtower Society likes to intimate, (though neither the Bible nor Church History indicates this), it is very hard to believe, that the Watchtower organization could do more evangelizing in seventy years than Jesus Christ and His twelve disciples!

    The church that Jesus Christ started was a pure church. By its own admission, the Watchtower Society was almost completely PAGAN when it began. It has been and is still trying to get rid of these pagan practices. Its leaders claim to keep getting NEW LIGHT which is supposed to expose and correct the mistakes (paganism) of their earlier teachings. Of course this will never happen, because it is all built upon false precepts. We know from the book of Revelations (Written about 96AD.) that the true church was then still upon the earth. This would be about seventy years after the founding of the church. It is very hard for me to accept the fact that the pure church which Jesus Christ started with His twelve apostles could not have realized anywhere near 144,000 true conversions in seventy years . (You can press a Jehovahs Witness on this point because it is very important. They never thought about this, and it should be a help in opening their eyes to the unreliability of their teaching about the 144,000).

    THE PAGANISM BELIEFS AND DOCTRINES OF THE ANOINTED CLASS 144,000!

    The Watchtower claims that in 1935 the door was shut and there were no more openings left of the Anointed Class. They have reached their 144,000 faithful anointed class, even though we have seen that is was impossible for any openings to be left. They claim the 144,000 are the worthy ones appointed by God. In order for one to be considered for such a high calling, then it would seem only logical that they would have to prove themselves by their fruits after all the Bible does state Jesus is looking a pure bride without spot or wrinkle. However, just about everything practiced by the Jehovahs Witnesses before 1935 is now considered pagan. For example:

    They voted and took part in government.

    Could observe Christmas, birthdays, and other holidays.

    Were not against blood transfusions.

    Believed that Jesus died on the cross.

    Were permitted to worship Jesus.

    I just cant comprehend why God would choose people with such pagan beliefs and practices to live and reign with Him! If what the Watchtower Society says about Proverbs 4:18 is true, that they are continually getting New Light, and the light is getting Brighter and Brighter, then it would seem to me that God would surely wait until the very end, and choose those having the purest doctrines and practices to reign with him.

    Furthermore, Jehovahs Witnesses like to bash Born Again Christians and proclaim to these individuals they are pagans because of certain doctrines they believe, GO FIGURE HUH!

    Jehovahs Witnesses didnt come into the scene until 1879 when their loving pastor Charles Taze Russell founded the Watchtower. That means Born Again Christians before 1879 believed in the above pagan doctrines such as worshipping Jesus, Christ crucified on a cross etc.

  • searcher
    searcher

    Good post.

    Unfortunatley you posted it, now they will read it, recieve new light, and have an answer on the doors.

    It never fails to amaze me that most (if not all) of the new light is in response to what 'opposers' have pointed out in relation to WT teachings.

    Perhaps Jehovah has a use for 'opposers' after all?

    searcher.

  • adonoyechod
    adonoyechod

    To searcher:

    And yet another example of making statements and never really addressing the issue. This is becoming a standard operational procedure.

    To JcisGod:

    Good post. Keep doin' what you're doin' and don't worry about those who call you "Opposer" or when they question your "Motivation" for doin' what you do. We as Christians MUST test all things no matter who it comes from. Stick with the facts and be led by the Holy Spirit who will guide you into all truth. "Onward Christian Soldier"

  • MikeMusto
    MikeMusto

    I am a current JW. I realise that the doctrine of 144,000 is flawed. I cant wait for the changes to come.</P> 
  • JCISGOD98
    JCISGOD98

    Mike Musto, I wouldn't wait until the Watchtower changes their doctrine. We all know the Watchtower is like chameleon. This doctrine can change over night. The following week it can change again. Then what are you doing to do? Wait some more? by then it will be too late. Christ can come by time I finish this post. God help you if you left behind. Why wait for the Watchtower? Let God give you the revelation.

  • RevJohn
    RevJohn

    Waaazzzz upppppp JCISGOD98......ahhhhhhhh wazz uppppppp!!

    Waaazz upppppp YOUDONTKNOW HIM......ahhhhhh wazz up

    The Aol posters are in the house. The invasion has begun.

    Do at least the Jehovah's Witnesses refute anything on this board? Or is this a repeat of the AOL discussion board JCISGOD98?

    Talk to me my brother. I see no refutations yet for any for your posting JC and YOUDONT. Hmm, looks like a repeat huh?

    So waz uuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppp!!!!

    Peace be with you all.

  • JCISGOD98
    JCISGOD98

    whats uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

    Hey Johnny! I see you made it. Where is the SauceQ? Where are the others? This is suppose to be the grand Exodus of AOL. Are the others coming to the board?

    Yes, this just might be like the aol discussion board my brother. A repeat of no rebuttals. (LOL ). Just keep planting the seed and let the Holy Ghost provide the increase. My bestfriend is also on board. He goes by the name of Adonoyechod. Check out his posts dude.

    Andy

  • RevJohn
    RevJohn

    Give them time my brother. They're on their way.

    Hey Andy....How do you get that picture in your posts? Is that the FORGIVEN picture? I want it dude. Email it to me please. I love that pic.

    Edited by - revjohn on 4 August 2002 20:23:37

  • JCISGOD98
    JCISGOD98

    I do remember reading somewhere Johnny,

    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's internet goods.

    Where was that verse? Ah yes here it is....Ex 20:17 JCISGOD REVISED VERSION.

    Check your email John.

  • RevJohn
    RevJohn

    LOL. JCISGOD98 is a member of the New World Translation Commitee. He's changing the bible to fit his own doctrines.

    Does your version of the Bible have clarity and up to date language JC?

    Don't forget, 144,000 are the greased class not the anointed. Make sure you translate that correctly.

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