The wonderful future Christian America.

by Norm 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Norm
    Norm

    Those of us who have frequented H2O and have otherwise encountered our fundie friends from the USA have many times been reminded of their strange arguments and ideas. All of them seem to long back to Biblical times and particularly the times of the Old Testament. They have got the idea that those days were so wonderful when everybody was adhering to Biblical morals, values and such. They speak warmly about a theocracy:

    Recently I have read a very good book on the subject written by Steve Allen. In the foreword he is discussing what would happen if the American society were going back to Biblical values, and becomes a theocracy. He observes:

    Since the new ultra-extreme fundamentalists are so displeased by democracy, what, specifically, do they recommend as its replacement? On this question, too, they are quite frank. A theocracy. Shades of Puritan England, Inquisition Spain, or Iran, 1979-1989!

    Theocracy means: rule not by the people, not by elected representatives, but by God (and whoever has the power to enforce claims that he speaks for God). Those of us who assume that God exists would presumably object to such a system only in the absence of God from the earth in a physical form. God can take over the administration of the affairs of all the nations of earth anytime he wants to, so far as I am concerned, but this has never happened. In the governments throughout history that have considered themselves theocracies, we have witnessed rule by clergymen who simply asserted (and in many cases may have honestly believed) that they were God's specially chosen representatives. Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion & Morality, 1990. page 32.

    Then Allen goes on to describe some of the consequences to the US society if those who want this theocracy should succeed in their undertaking. First of all the homosexual community would have no reason to rejoice:

    Let us now consider specs. As regards the question of homosexuality, it is clear that most Americans regard the sexual preference for a member of one's own gender as a problem. Some people have fascistic and heartless attitudes on the issue; others strive to be fair.

    The Christian Reconstructionists are perfectly clear about a solution to the problem. That solution is nothing more complex than the prompt imposition of the death penalty.

    To those unfamiliar with the recent drift of the public dialogue on this and related questions, what I have just said will sound like a libelous distortion. Would that it were. The Reconstructionist movement, which is chiefly Protestant although it has interested a few Catholics, absolutely insists that homosexuals ought to be killed. I do not mean that individual Reconstructionists consider themselves at liberty to arm themselves to the teeth and travel about their communities in vigilante bands, shooting or stabbing homosexuals on sight. That would, obviously enough, be a horrifying spectacle to witness. I refer to something worse.

    The Reconstructionists insist that the slaughter of millions of their fellow citizens is to be conducted in strict accordance with the law. They argue, in other words, that homosexuality must simply be added to the list of capital crimes punishable by execution.
    Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion & Morality, 1990. page 32, 33.

    Of course the homosexuals wouldn’t the only “undesirable” elements that would be unwanted in a Society of true believers, so there would be a number of other people that would have to be killed:

    What other crimes would the new fascist movement like to see added to the list of capital offenses? Habitual juvenile delinquency, for one. Please do not take my word for this; consult the public statements and writings of leaders of the new movement. It should take only a few days of investigation to establish that yes, the group at present is working very hard to do nothing less than take over the administration of the local, state, and national affairs of the United States. It insists that swiftly imposed death is the proper punishment for the kind of lamentable and sometimes criminal behavior engaged in by millions of young men and women in our presently troubled society.

    If, as is commonly believed, about 10 percent of Americans have homosexual leanings, it inescapably follows that if the Reconstructionists ever do take over control of our country, some 25 million Americans will shortly be executed. Statistics about juvenile delinquency may be variously interpreted, but let us say that in that category perhaps another 20 million young men and women would be killed, and this, bear constantly in mind, by those who consider themselves Christians. It is obviously impossible to get precise statistics concerning that percentage of the approximately 250 million American population who have committed the moral and sometimes legal offense of adultery. Most of us would be pleased if no one ever was unfaithful to a marriage partner, and the American home would clearly be a more secure institution if this were the case. But, as the scriptures constantly remind us, humans have apparently as much a gift for wrongdoing as for virtuous conduct. So let us arbitrarily say that 75 million Americans have offended the moral law in this way. Add that to the other arithmetic.

    Hitler's Nazis became the objects of most of the world's contempt by killing six million Jews, equally as many, if not more, Balts and Slavs, and being responsible for waging war in which millions more civilians and soldiers died. The Reconstructionists do not seek to obscure the fact that they propose the slaughter of their fellow citizens in numbers that Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot may never have dreamed of.
    Steve Allen on the Bible, Religion & Morality, 1990. page 33, 34.



    As we can see this wonderful new American theocracy would be founded on the execution of about 120 million Americans. It is of course still not as radical as the Watchtower Society "solution" that will kill 6 billion people, but at least the Watchtower Society leave the actual killing to their homicidal God. Their fundy brothers would like to do much of the killing by their theocratic state penal system.
    Either way they both are according to themselves preaching “Good News”. How wonderful and attractive it must be to be this kind of Christian. Wouldn’t you all love to live in such a system?

    Norm.

  • LDH
    LDH

    The late Steve Allen was a Secular Humanist.

    http://www.secularhumanism.org

  • ZazuWitts
    ZazuWitts

    Norm,

    Thanks for the post - very thought provoking, eh?

    Steve Allen was a most remarkable man - entertaining, intelligent, talented and compassionate; well-liked and respected by all who knew him. He wrote more than 50 books - on a variety of topics. Many are still available.

    Check out his official web site:
    http://www.steveallenonline.com
    A trip down memory lane for some of us!
    :):):)

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Norm,

    It`s a great pity that America still clings on to capital punishment, I think that it`s unique system of voting for judges may be responsible, but "being tough on crime" by legal murder is only one step away from an eye for an eye.

    America should have ditched executions 40 years ago alongside the rest of the civilised world, how can it ever be regarded as having the moral highground when it upholds practises that are nowadays only the province of governments such as China, Iraq and other dictatorships?

    Sorry if I have offended you US guys, but honestly, it really is time that America cottoned on to the fact that many Europeans wont even travel through a US state that carries out the death penalty.

    Englishman.

  • JAVA
    JAVA

    LDH,

    The late Steve Allen was a Secular Humanist.

    Yes, he was a great thinker.

    JAVA

    Edited by - JAVA on 15 March 2001 15:3:10

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    Englishman,

    why is it un-ethical to expect someone to surrender their life when they have shown little regard for the life of others? Why should a society support indefinitely an incorigable killer? If reform and rentry to society is possible fine. But there are cases where killers are a harm to society. Why should we house and feed them and pay for their lives when they refuse to contribute to society and only wish to kill other humans? Is there no redeeming value in a death sentence?

    Sean (who neither supports nor opposes the US's position on the death penalty but only wonders why others find it so in-humane)

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Seaken,
    I'm a survivor of extreme violence. My 1st husband was murdered when he was being robbed.........(we were both 25 yrs old) for a long time after that I had mixed feelings about the death penalty......today I'm against it. But having been a victim I can understand why many are pro-capital punishment.....it's the American judicial system. If the American people were assured that 'life meant life' in a prison sentence,I think they would be able to let the death penalty go..... but because that is so rarely the case,people do fear recidivism.
    There is no rehabilitation in prisons......they're released back onto society,angry,no skills,,,and the cycle is perpetuated,,,,,,,I guess what I'm saying is it's a complex problem....a lot of factors to be considered,,,regards,Tina

  • Jackson
    Jackson

    I am not surprised that wimpy English don't travel through states in the U.S. that have the death penalty. It must really trouble them that U.S. folk don't give a crap what they think.

  • logical
    logical

    Norm

    I dont have the time to go into it now, but if people were living honest lives adhering to their CREATOR's principals, then a theocratic rule would be an absolute BLESSING!

    As we sure will find out soon.

    It wont just be America either. It will be global.

  • Simon
    Simon

    I think the death penalty is a good idea in principle for certain cases BUT there are too many miscarriages of justice and shakey convictions to have enough faith in the system that you are not creating more victims.

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