A Quartet Of Questions For You Know... (page 4)

You Know

I suspect that you may even become a seeker of truth, in time.

I have always been a truth-seeker. The difference between apostates and me is that you are described in the 4th Psalm as those who keep seeking to find a lie. I think you found what you were looking for, and should accordingly be getting your reward paid in full. / You Know

sunshineToo

You Know,

What do you want out of the WTS? You said that they need to reform. In what way?

NewWay

Gypsywildone:

It is all a matter of perspective. Some people seem to me to believe that virtually any prophecy actually pronounced against ancient Israel has a 'greater fulfillment'. This is obviously a matter of faith, as 'greater fulfillment' exergesis is not specified in the New Testament as a modus operandum for Christians. Any 'greater fulfillment' of a prophecy is specifically given within the New Testament itself. Going 'beyond the things that are written' by interpreting ancient prophetic statements as having a 'greater' modern fulfillment is a matter for personal belief alone, but it carries no authority from the Scriptures. Jewish rabbis and early Church 'Fathers' (notably Origen) were known to search the scriptures for some greater meaning (even 'hidden' knowledge). There is a danger in doing this for it can lead to antagonistic religious debate, animosity, self-righteousness, and even in some cases people appointing themselves as God's mouthpiece. Note please what Peter revealed about certain ones in his day:

"Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote you, speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." - 2 Peter 3:15 & 16 (New World Translation)

It is one thing to say that 'I believe the prophecies refer to...', but quite another to say 'The prophecies [by implication: definitely] refer to...' as if God had personally spoken to us and told us so. However, I can see nothing wrong in considering God's dealings with Israel and how its spiritual shepherds treated those under their care as examples or patterns for our instruction (compare 1 Corinthians 10:1-11).

Note please, this scripture:

"Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, 'Come out of her, my people [Greek = 'ho laos mou' = 'the people of me'], so that you do not take part in her sins, and so that you do not share in her plagues, for her sins are heaped high as heaven and God has remembered her iniquities." - Revelation 18:4 (NRSV)

Here the scriptures themselves actually use the example of the Israelites in bondage to literal Babylon, and shows that like them, God's people - yes, 'my people', indicating that they were already recognised by him as his own while in bondage - had to remove themselves from that entity which was holding them prisoner, in order to escape the plagues coming upon it. It was a case of loyalty to God, not a man-made entity that was important, and one had the opportunity to show integrity to God by 'voting with one's feet', as the expression goes. This of course does not mean that God's people would be committing apostasy by leaving 'Babylon the Great', for they would retain their faith and relationship with God as one of his people under the direction of His spirit.

It is my belief that the mark of a spiritual 'man' is his standing for truth and integrity to God even when this requires of him to expose his religious teachers and remove himself from their company.

hillary_step

A first class post NewWay - thank you - HS

NewWay

Thanks H.S. I haven't forgotten about emailing you, so I will try to do soon. I did send one a few weeks ago, but I presume it got 'lost' in transit.

Kind regards.

You Know

NO WAY says

This is obviously a matter of faith, as 'greater fulfillment' exergesis is not specified in the New Testament as a modus operandum for Christians.

That's complete nonsense. Christian writers applied many many prophecies of physical Israel to spirititual Israel . As just one of many examples, at Romans 9:27 Paul quotes Isaiah 10:22 where it refers to God sparing a remnant of Israelites from the enemy and he applies it to the Christian congregation. / You Know

jack2

YK, I think you may need to read NewWay's post a bit more carefully.

NW is certainly saying that, in the 1st century, Bible writers did indeed apply Hebrew Scripture prophecies and other scriptures to the Isreal of God in the first century. What NW seems to be saying is that the scriptures do not give license to do the same today.

NewWay

Jack2, you've nailed the thing on the head. What I said was that the NT does not give Christians an exergisis rule that they can use as a modus operandum. Whatever is not in the scriptures by way of 'greater fulfillment' application is purely a personal interpretation.

Regards.

NewWay

"You know the Bible says, 'Do not go beyond the things that are written.' We don't go beyond the things that are written." - Ted Jaracz

Oh, really?!

A Quartet Of Questions For You Know...

Share this