I was pondering...again.....

VioletAnai

I have another question re a bible topic. I know some of you don't believe what it says, but just to get your opinion would be helpful.

Ok, so in Genisis.....the angels see the beautiful women of earth and get hot under the collar and proceed to come down and have sexual relations with these women.

Now, some time before this happened, two silly individuals in their naivity, listen to a dumbarse snake and to tell you the truth if I was a new human and a snake spoke to me, I'd take pretty much what he says as gospel....cos that just doesn't happen.....or I'd be having a psychotic episode. So they go and disobey God and what do they get for punishment....kicked out of home and left to fend for themselves without food, shelter, health, happiness or they father's love...all for disobeying him over a silly apple (I know this is to do with the 'sovereignty' issue, why he needs to prove himself I'll never know).

So for punishment these two get:

Sin leading to death, sickness due to sin, slogging it out for little return, pain in heart, mind, spirit etc etc

Now do the angels on the other hand, after committing a GROSS SEXUAL SIN far worse than a simple act of disobedience, get a worse punishment that the human being?

Far from it!

They get to hang around heaven coming and going as they please (see the book of Job for confirmation), mock God and Jesus to their faces and finally get ousted in 1914! They only other punishment is eternal death to come......

But we all suffer that in the end don't we?

So why do we as humans get so severely punished and yet a sin such as the angels committed was far worse in God's eyes (by what the bible says about fornication) and they get to run amok and do as they please.

I thought the whole 'sovereignty' issue was for the angels benefit anyway. So did God set a good example by waiting thousands and thousands of years to punish these angels for their deeds? I think not!

How can I keep the happy hope of the bible when I see so many holes and what I see as some injustices on God's part? Am I wrong? Are these questions trivial in the whole scheme of things? Is it my constant questioning that's destroying my already weak spirituality or is it the association here? Am I really brainwashed from childhood, even tho I broke away for a few years and viewed them independantly?

Have I asked a stoopid pointless question?

Undecided

Hi Anai,

Why do we have to go through Christ to speak to God, when Moses, Abraham and many others spoke directly with Him? If it is because we inherited sin, didn't they also?

If we can repent and get life, why couldn't Adam and Eve? If they didn't make a mistake by eating the fruit, why would they have done it knowing they were going to die???

Ken P.

larc

Violet, I don't think these questions are trivial at all. They are the kind of questions we all ask, and should ask, once our critical thinking skills begin to grow after leaving the mind numbing religion we were part of. I had a similiar thread about this about two weeks ago. Unfortunately, I can't remember the title I used for it, so I can't find it easily via search. By the way, I don't think this questioning necessarily affects a person's spirituality, but is sure does affect what we will and will not take for granted.

Silverleaf

Hi Violet,

You wrote: Is it my constant questioning that's destroying my already weak spirituality or is it the association here?

Questioning cannot destroy one's spirituality, I believe. What destroys spirituality is having to swallow weak, unreasonable answers to these important questions or face punishment of some sort for asking them in the first place. It's when you ask questions and begin to get answers that make sense, are truly uplifting and thoughtful and when you are rewarded for insight and logic that your spirituality really begins to grow. As for associating here, true spirituality can survive doubters, dissenting opinions and arguments - being in a place where you are free to speak your mind without fear of being 'outed' is far better for your spirituality than being somewhere where your silence is expected when you disagree with the rank and file.

Just my 2 cents,

Silverleaf

disliked by members of the WTS for insisting on logical answers to my questions

CoonDawg

Robert Heinlein, in a work of fiction, proposed an answer to your question. He posed that possibly God is all powerfull to us, yet perhaps he is subject to someone yet far superior to him. Possibly this is some kind of sick sadistic experiment set up for humans to fail merely for the amusement of a power freak. Yes, blasphemous as it sounds...anything is possible.

Just some random thoughts...

CoonDawg

P.S. It was "Job, A Comedy of Justice" a real read! One of my fave's.

FiveShadows

Violet, May you have peace! I wish to share with you what i have heard the spirit speak in regards your questions. Yet i do not wish for you to believe on account of my witness but go on believing from Him that has sent me.

It is true that the sons of God did infact go on to have women as wives for themselves. However, God did not wait 'thousands and thousands of years' to punish these angels. For it is written in Genesis 6:1-4 the Nephilim WERE the angels that had disobeyed and took women as wives for themselves, and yet please keep in mind 2 Peter 2:4 where it clearly states that they were 'punished' for this act and thrown into tartarus where they await judgement. Seeing how adam was allowed to live longer after he sinned...the Nephilim were immediately thrown into tartarus once they returned in the beginning of the flood. They are not permitted to 'hang around heaven coming and going as they please.' And were NOT thrown out in 1914. For it is written in Luke 10:18 immediately after Jah-Eshua being 'lifted up' from the dead that He already began to behold Satan being thrown out of heaven. In Mt 28:18 Jah-Eshua also speaks of having 'all authority' would this not include to cast out Satan? Death had reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them (Romans 5:14) Yet by now the ransom was complete there was no place found for Satan and his demons by this point so they were cast out unto the earth because the kingdom of the world had become the kingdom of Jah-Eshua. (Revelation 12:8-12) This is the 'punishment' that you speak of was indeed given as soon as all 'authority' had been given to our Lord and 'they had over come' 'the dragon, original serpent, one called Satan and Devil,' and his angels, ' because of the blood of the lamb, and the word of their testimony.' Yet by now 'Life and Death' was put before man and had been since Adam sinned. (Deuteronomy 30:19) Such 'undeserved kindness' has been showen to man. True man DOES suffer yet if ONLY they would listen to the commandments of Jah and the Word of Jah (Jah-Eshua) that their 'peace would become like a river and their righteiousness like the waves of the sea' (Isaiah 48:18) Yes for the WAGES of SIN is Death, but everlasting life is FREEgift given by means of Jah-Eshua Mischa-Jah. (Romans 6:23)

Undecided: Jah-Eshua has spoken on many occasions that "NO ONE goes through the Father except through Me" (John14:6) Even men of old did so such as Moses (Hebrews 11:24-26). For the Word of Jah is Jah-Eshua, (John 1:1, 1:14) and it is written that men of old did speak THROUGH the 'Word of Jah' (Numbers 15:31, Numbers 22:18, Gn 15:1, Gn 15:4, 1 Samuel 3:7, 1 King 6:11, Ex 9:20) They were not permitted to speak directly with Jah of Armies. We are not permitted to speak directly because no one knows the Father except the Son and no one knows the Son except the Father.(Luke 10:22) To ALL: Go on following Him that sent me and drink Life's water free!

Your Servent In Christ
FS

Edited by - FiveShadows on 30 June 2002 21:18:57

VioletAnai

Yes but tartarus is spiritual darkness/blindness and that's how they've been bound up. Well, so I was told. Not actually prison so to speak, only in their minds. They are roaming the earth still with their filthy vile disgusting appetites and they can't satisfy them becos God took away the ability of using a physical body. That is why, they say, there is homosexuality, child abuse, rape etc becos of these wicked angels appetites.......

FiveShadows

Violet, I understand what you are speaking in regardes however, Jude 1:6 speaks of the Angels being set there till judgement day and revelation speaks of this place as the Abyss and there is only one who has the keys to such a place and that is Jah-Eshua.(Revelation 20:1-3) Notice however in Jude 1:6 that it speaks as this place having 'everlasting bonds' as you see indicated in revelation for the abyss AND in the physical realm prison. Not a mental state of mind.

FS

tdogg

So I was reading Homer's Odyssy the other day and I had some questions....

See what happens when you start trying to make too much out of myths? You can and will find answers for all of you questions regarding the Bible. People have been pondering these strange questions for a long time and there are rationalizations, but they all seem to me to be contrived.

"God works in mysterious ways", "not meant to be understood yet","things were different then","what really happened was this-" are of course the universal copout answers when the rationaliztions don't convince you.

FiveShadows

tdogg, May you have peace and love from Jah of Armies by means of Jah-Eshua. The one asking will recieve...the one knocking it will be opened to him. Yet it's interesting though one when recieving when asking must LISTEN ....when knocking one must ENTER in order to reap the benefits of it all. If one wishes to remain confused...and not enter..or listen...then how is Anyone else but to blame but that one who chooses not to do so? If one wishes to remain CONFUSED and not sort thigns out...so it will be granted to him.

FS

I was pondering...again.....

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