by claudia 29 Replies latest jw friends
Fornication! Fornication!! FORNICATION!!!
Now that I have your attention, brothers and sisters, I would just like to say that for `n occasion such as this it would be appropriate to yak yak yak......
I longed to do that at the KH, maybe it would go down well as a wedding speech?
Englishman.
Drugs, smoking, homosexuality, all those things will get pretty quick action. But, there's just a lot more fornicators out there )
Simply speaking because sex is fun and they can't control it,and that's what they don't like being unable to do,control other people.Just like bear baiting being banned by the Puritans in 16th century England,it wasn't out of love for the bears that they did it but purely to avoid people having their own brand of enjoyment.All cults,and I say that in the widest possible sense,enjoy controlling human behaviour especially sexuality (1984).
Regards Welshman (Winston class)
Frenchy, does there also have to be a lot of fornication? I have never seen someone get df'd for lying.
I gather by this you mean that someone can get DF’d for one instance of fornication but not hardly for one instance of drunkenness. You are quite correct. Getting drunk once in a great while is not viewed as drunkenness. One time fornication is viewed as fornication. (Not my rules, just saying how it is.) As I mentioned previously, lying must be done with intent to deliberately malign someone or to misrepresent (Oh oh... I see it coming!) facts to as to conceal some wrongdoing. I have been on committees that df’d someone for lying. Not many, only two that I can remember off hand. Lying is often used in conjunction with another df’d offense as a noose closer so to speak.
Example: "Have you been fooling around, sister?" –"No brother, I have not! How dare you imply that I am immoral. This is the third time you’ve called me in here and asked me that! I did not have sex with that man!" –-"Well sister, here’s a polaroid that we took while stalking you for the past six months. Now, what do you have to say about that! Ah ha! That’s what we thought! So not only are you fooling around but you LIED to us about it when we asked you repeatedly! Shame on you. It’s the big "D" for you!"
The lie is the clincher here. It’s used a lot by committees to justify their not finding any ‘works that befit repentance’. This is especially so in cases of habitual ‘trouble makers’, i.e., where the person is not liked very much by the members of the committee. In other cases where gossip becomes a problem and a particular publisher is caught in several lies that defame another’s character and a pattern is established that this was done with malice of forethought then DF’ing can occur.
Now gluttony is another matter. How ‘fat’ does a person have to be before he is ‘fat’? Fatness itself is not a sin. The general definition of gluttony is eating (or drinking) too much but it has a much narrower application in the way that it’s used by the WTBS, i.e., at times we may all eat too much but that does not make us gluttons in the same manner that getting drunk every once in a great while does not make one a drunkard. Again, the rules are not mine but I must say that it’s a sensible stand.
Now I know some fat sisters and brothers. I know some not so fat brothers and sisters that eat more than them. Which is guilty of gluttony? How much overweight does one have to be before he is a glutton? I had a sister that was being DF’d for smoking bring this up, by the way. She asked me why we didn’t df fat people. I reminded her that she had a fat daughter and asked her if she thought we should DF her. But she did have a good point in that people are allowed to overindulge in food but not in other areas.
On a lighter note to larc: Personal experience has shown me that for some reason fat sisters have less of a problem with fornication! Strange, isn’t it? Fat brothers, on the other hand seem uninhibited by the condition. Goes to show that our kindly sisters have more tolerance than the brothers. Another point: Sisters can always use Scripture to defend their status. For does not one of the Psalms tell us that the good news will be declared by an army of large women? (Ps 68:11)
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
Frency, being drunk PERIOD is a sin if we use the bible to come to this conclusion, where does it say its not a sin if you are drunk onece in a while?
Lurker, I agree but the VAST majority of overweight people do not have a thyroid problem. How many people left a consentration camp fat? I also think many gluttons are thin because they vomit after they eat. But I still think its a safe generalization that most overwieght people do overeat.
lurker,
Like any humorous post, something can be said that offends. I know there are medical problems that need to be addressed and corrected and I certainly didn't mean to make fun of anyone with such a problem. My comments were concerning those who do not have medical problems and are over eating, and ought to change for their own well being.
Lurker,
After rereading my reply to you, I thought it was accurate, but a little terse. So, let me say that I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I am sure that what you went through was very painful as you so well described. I am glad that that the doctors were able help you.
So now you have the body of a pro football player, the mind of an Einstein, and you are making big money, but you are still shy. Don't you worry a bit, the fine young ladies will find you. By the way, the women here will give you good advice on how to meet and treat the fairer sex, if you ask for their advice. They were very helpful to another young man a few month's back. (If you are not shy, please ignore the last part of my remarks.)
about the glutony...apart from those with a medical problem( i have a dear friend who does suffer this)
have you noticed the over wieght sisters out number the bros?? i think they are sad, lonely and miserable, as are most who turn to food for comfort..and honey i have been there.
even among the "worldly" this is a problem, but i noticed it back when i was a dubber. and tell me if i am wrong, but it seems more prevalent here in the south.
you can't have sex, if your married you're probably miserable, armageddon is "just around the corner", you might have 10 kids....what else is there besides food????
women do have it rough i think in jdub land, and probably half of the ladies i knew were obese, many had mental problems, and 20 years later, some of the ones i knew are divorced or dead......
just thinking out loud again
Claudia:
Frency, being drunk PERIOD is a sin if we use the bible to come to this conclusion, where does it say its not a sin if you are drunk onece in a while?
Okay, first of all. Being guilty of a sin is not a df'ing offense. Being guilty of unrepentant sinning is. Secondly, many things can be classed as sin but not all sins are viewed as equal in God's eyes. Thievery is wrong, who would deny that? But is it equivalent to murder? Certainly not.
Noah and Lot both got drunk on occasions. As far as the record shows, they were not condemned by God for doing so. Their getting drunk on those occasions did not make them drunkards anymore than someone overeating on occasion make them gluttons. It happens. There is nothing wrong in drinking alcohol or eating food and in the process one can, at times, overdo it. These are legitimate practices. Fornication, however, is not merely a matter of overidulgence in a legitimate practice anymore that is stealing or murder or rape. Side note: I am not equating fornication with the latter two offenses but merely demonstrating a principle here.
There is also the account in 1 Cor 11: 20-22 -"Therefore, when YOU come together to one place, it is not possible to eat the Lord's evening meal. For, when YOU eat [it], each one takes his own evening meal beforehand, so that one is hungry but another is intoxicated. Certainly YOU do have houses for eating and drinking, do YOU not? Or do YOU despise the congregation of God and make those who have nothing ashamed? What shall I say to YOU? Shall I commend YOU? In this I do not commend YOU." Which brings us to a third point: Exactly at what point does one become drunk? (Exactly at what point does one become a glutton?) Do we start taking alcohol level tests to make that determination? The above example is that of Christians becoming intoxicated at the memorial and yet there is no mention of them being removed for that offense although Paul does not commend them for it. God's permission of the consumption of alcohol presupposes that there will be some intoxication. We have to deal with that. Just like we have to deal with the matter of people overeating at times. I have to agree with the Society on the way that this is viewed and handled. I think this is both Scriptural and reasonable. Give the devil his due!
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
