Lookin' for a little advice tonight...

by wasasister 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    I heard from an old friend today - she is a young woman I knew from my last congregation. I was asked to attend her Bible study because we shared a profession and it was thought we would have something in common. In fact, she was a very shy young woman shy and attractive, but not in the traditional, flashy way of many Witness girls. She was not quite 30, educated and gainfully employed, living a single life after having ended a serious relationship. Most of the eligible Witness boys viewed her as over-the-hill and not thin enough to be good wife material.

    Eventually this woman was baptized. She remained rather fragile and seemed vulnerable in the old-fashioned sense of the word. In time, her single state lead her to connect with a rare single brother, somewhat older, a twice-divorced man who had two (so it seemed) crazy ex-wives. They were married in secret, at the urging of the elders, to prevent the intervention of the first crazy ex. When I left off going to meetings, my friend was one of two people who actively pursued contact with me. I did not return her phone calls, nor did I respond to any of her hand written notes out of fear of being accused of causing divisions.

    Her phone call to me last night came as a complete surprise. I came home from a long day at work to a rather emotional voice message. She said in part: Ive thought about you a lot lately. I have so much on my mind and would like to talk to you I had planned to call her after dinner, but she beat me to it.

    Our conversation was guarded, at least on my part. I am still fearful of revealing my true feelings as regards The Truth. She revealed that her husband had abused her, verbally and emotionally if not physically. After leaving the brother, she was contacted by his first wife who informed her that the man had served jail time for beating their 18 month old child. She (the first wife) had tried to warn the elders of the violent behavior when she learned he planned to remarry, and that is why they advised the couple to conceal their wedding plans. The elders KNEW of his violent past, yet did not reveal this to the young woman.

    This woman is now inactive. She has moved in with a man who seems to love her and care for her. She is carrying his child and believes with all her heart that Jehovah will execute her and her child because she lives in sin. Her only hope is that Jehovah will not make her witness the death of her child before he kills her. How sick is that? I only asked her if the idea of a god who would execute an infant in front of its mother harmonizes with what she knows of a loving God. She has often though of ending her life and until the discovery of her pregnancy, has taken anti-depressant medications.

    All I could do was encourage her to get professional help and remind her that the elders are not qualified to offer the kind of counseling she needs. I offered to talk to her whenever she had thoughts of harming herself. Other than that, I can do little for her. She is very messed up and I understand only some of her problems are caused by the religion. I do believe she might have been better off if she had been encouraged to seek professional help sooner; and if she did not believe she was somehow at fault for the failure of her marriage to an obviously dysfunctional person. I do feel the elders are culpable for allowing her to marry in ignorance.

    My question to the board is this: How can I support the needy person without sacrificing my own situation? I would like to speak with her fianc and help him understand the unique situation of lapsed JWs so he can better cope with her depression. I do not want to risk her having a spiritual rebirth and telling the elders that I guided her to JW.com and the sordid road to apostasy.

    Im frankly torn between the urge to nurture and the urge of self-preservation.

    Thank you in advance.

    Wasa

  • Dawn
    Dawn

    Your friend DEFINATELY needs to get some professional help - right away!! Take it from someone who was there - I want through a depression after I was DF'd and went to counseling and had to take medication for a while. Without the professional help I may not have gotten better.

    Since she still believes in God you could also comfort her with a couple of scriptures: Psalm 130:2-6 - paraphrased "If you, O Lord, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand? But with you there is forgiveness;.......v.v I wait for the Lord, my soul waits, and in his word I put my hope". The word of course is Jesus. And he told us after his resurrection that he was given all power to judge AND to forgive sins.

    She thinks that because she has sinned she's doomed to death - she's forgotten that Jesus died for this very reason - so we can be forgiven. A lot of her feelings of worthlessness probably come from the abusive relationship - she doesn't believe she's worth being forgiven.

    Maybe you could remind her about Abraham and Hagar. Abraham had sex with Hagar and got Hagar pregnant - even though Sarah put him up to it it's still adultery. But God didn't punish Hagar or Ishmael - in fact, he sent an Angel to take care of her and Ishmael when Abraham banished them.

    As for opening up to her about your feelings - that's tough but I'd encourage you to do it. Sounds like she really needs the help now and has reached out to you in the past.

  • Marilyn
    Marilyn

    Wasa, this is a real tricky one. Boy I could really use a phrase like: Trust in Jah, right now. It seems to me that the only way to help her is to open up to her. She obviously respects you a great deal and isn't bothered by your 'lapsed' status. But it is a risk that she will do an about face and dob you in. How many times does helping someone back fire? I was thinking that if you keep up communicating with her, you may get a better feel for whether she is likely to undergo a dub rebirth. It doesn't sound likely to me, but you know her better than us. I think I'd just keep talking to her - not ever giving yourself away in any clear sense. Just asking questions designed to make her think things out for herself. In time it will become clearer to you whether you should let your guard down and give her the full brunt of your knowledge.

    best wishes for this one

    Marilyn

  • Naomimara
    Naomimara

    Dear Wasa,

    Why not tell your friend about "Silentlambs". Be a bit discreet about it by implying that you recently heard about it and many of Jehovah's Witnesses have found it a good way to express feelings and interact for support. Assure her of Bill Bowen's technical 'still in good standing' position. Remind her that getting angry and speaking out about bad people does not constitute not loving God. Tell her how some abused persons went so far as to take up prostitution or the like for a time in order to cope with their circumstances, therefore she may feel a little less self-condemned. After all what is done is done but if she truly feels that she needs to take responsibility for personal poor choices and decisions, the best encouragement she can have is to feel others want to help. She obviously has a friend in you. Good for you!

    from,

    Happy - Sad, but always moving forward.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Obviously a lot of light needs to be played on all this darkness. And like it or not, you're the light. Consider it an assignment from the Spirit.

    Informing the fiance seems like it might be the first item on your list. But you'd know better about that.

    Remember the scripture that says "greater love has no man than he who would give up his own life for his friends" or words to that effect? You seem to want to know if you should help this woman, and I don't see any way for you not to. If you turn from this very needy woman, it may be the end of her.

    If you can't get her to go to a professional, which I agree should happen, then you'll have to bone up really quickly on dysfunctionality and apply it. I suggest that right away you get a copy of Susan Forward's excellent "Men Who Hate Women and The Women Who Love Them" which is likely available from half.com. "Victims No Longer" might help.

    One of the best resources for you is likely to the Sidran Foundation at www.sidran.org.

    Specific advice beyond this couldn't possibly be as good as your own intuitive reactions, fueled as they are by your proximity to the situation.

    I hope you'll let us know how it goes. And feel free to post me direct if you like. Been there, done that.

    Francois

  • Bang
    Bang

    Pray

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    wasasister

    Please email me

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Wasasister: This is a tough situation for you. It boils down to risk and whether you are prepared for the consequences. I too tried to "fade" away, my way, and still say things to people ... and eventually this caught up to me, and I was forcibly DA'd.

    The question you may ask yourself is: What are the consequences if your true feelings are discovered by hte JW Elders? Will yuo lose friends and family or business that you need and want? Is this young woman's personal life and problems your responsibility such that you should take that risk?

    On the other hand is she and her fiance' possibly trustworthy enough to hold a strict confidence? Is opening up to her worth the risk? Maybe try opening up a little more, using questions ... making sure to ask the questions in a disarming way with no judgment or agenda behind them ... such as the way you already did regarding God being loving by hurting a child in front of its mother. Just keep up the effort and see where it leads ... maybe she just needs a little leadership, and has turned to you for that ... and in time she will leave the religion and get beyond the guilt she feels ...

    I am not a psychologist, but I wonder if when JWs get deeply involved in behavior that could get them DF'd, if they often are not believing the religion deep down in their subconscious. Their conscience mind may well be searching for some answers to get relief from the guilt ... and a friend can be the source of information they need. Just wondering.

  • HomebutHiding
    HomebutHiding

    Amazing...I can't figure how to copy/paste here, so i will do this from memory. You said you wonder if, when a person engages in activity which could lead to DF, if there is a conflict because they stil believe in the JW religion subconsciously. Yes, it is called brainwashing. Whne we leave the org, there is confusion, guilt, grief along with real freedom. I am still grappling with it years after leaving. This forum has helped immensely, as has going to college and opening my mind to a whole world of thoughts and ideas...and people!

  • LyinEyes
    LyinEyes

    I have often wondered about a certain young brother who is literally throwing his life away in the congregation we were in . He has so much ahead of him, or at least he could have, the elders have told him to basically stop his education and pioneer.

    I have wanted so bad to let him know what I know about JW now. But for reasons of my own at this point I dont want to get the elders on my family, this mainly involves issues with my husbands work.

    I have thought of putting somethings in writing, the old fashioned kind of writing, pen, paper and a stamp. Maybe you could put the web addy of SilentLambs on a piece of paper and mailing it to her.

    You could type a concerned and loving Friend, and leave it at that . In my case I am thinking of next time I go to town, mailing it out of the little town I live in, that way , LOL it cant directly be traced to me.

    I know alot of folks would say, you should just speak up and go directly to her. But honestly, she may not be ready to even consider anything "apostate" , since she is such fear of Jehovah God right now. But if she has the addy , she may turn to it , after waiting a few days or even weeks.

    Since she is not living with the abusive mate anymore and her child is safe, waiting for her to respond on her own might be a good thing for her. You could check back with her and see how she is .

    Might not be the best solution , but could be a first step in you helping your friend. It is sad we have to still be in fear of the harm they can do to us. There are so many things I want to tell certain ones face to face , but right now is not the time. Like I said, our livelihoood depends on a good relationship with many brothers in good standing. But it will happen , it will all come out in the wash, so to speak for us, and we will deal with it then. We have only be out a year and are still recovering from it all. It is ok to take small steps at first.

    But as some have mentioned, if you feel she is in a bad mental state, please encourage her to see a doctor, even take her if you can. Her life may depend on it. Only you know her and it is your judgement call. I wish her peace, poor lady,, i suffered from guilt so long... I hope she can see the light someday.

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