"What is your ultimate goal?"

by SEAKEN2001 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SEAKEN2001

  Yes, Mulan, you have been some of the best therapy for me. You're very special to me and I thank you for your continued patience with me. Your advice is exactly what I have continued to tell myself. I will continue to be patient. I know it took mom five years after Dad left the borg. But like I said, I can tell myself this and I know it mentally. It's my heart that is aching and it's getting harder to keep my mental health. I have decided I can no longer just stay silent. I have a few things I want to do and I can't wait for her to wake up before I get started. I'm no young kid anymore. So, whatever happens, I will face it. I am a little scared I might lose some things that are important to me but I also want to give them all the benefit of the doubt and hope that they will rise to the occasion. We'll see.

  I have been avoiding contacting Gma and UncleM because I have been dealing with my anger and the last thing I got out of Gma was that I was going to be destroyed by Jah at the big A. That has been pissing me off. But I do owe her a letter and I will try to be civil. I will try reaching out to UncleM too nut don't expect much. He's been pretty disappointing through all of this. I still hold out hope for B. but who knows? I fear he may have married a Big Momma. Only time will tell.

  Great goal. And it is one I share. As soon as I can shake this angst over not having a wife in agreement with me I will be able to do more. Hugs to everyone and I hope I can get out there again this year. If things go the way I think they might I will see before the winter.

  Sean
• 

  Carmel

  My ultimate goal? Nirvana! Complete with nubile virgins all gathered around to make my visit a pleasant one!

  Guess that means no elders about!

  carmel
• 

  MrMoe

  Sean -- Good luck sweetie and keep your chin up. Hopefully the bond you have with your wife will win her over and if not look past your differences.

  Mulan -- where is "here?" Do you live in Florida?

  Kisses,

  Moe
• 

  bonovox

  As the person who last asked the question, 'what is your ultimate goal?', I have no problem defending the question in the context that it was asked. Although I do find it disconcerting that you chose to ignore the question there and start a new somewhat unrelated thread with my question as the basis.

  We were discussing taking the WTS to court to have a decision that was made as a child to be baptized to be annulled or in some other way declared legally null and void. Some posters may feel that maybe they'd be able to regain a relationship with loved ones if they could legally prove that they were not fit as a child to make what is a very adult decision.

  And in that context my point still stands. No piece of paper from a court is going to change the mind of your mother, wife, father, husband or anyone who is brainwashed to believe that religion takes precedence over love for your family.

  If you can't appeal to your wife on the grounds of love for the person that each of you married, not the religious faith, then she isn't worth it and if you don't get out you will be needing more than a bi-weekly appt with a therapist. You may have other interests tied up in it (such as financial which you highlighted) but they are lame reasons to stay with someone. Work on re-establishing your self-esteem and do not harp on what you might lose, because if you gain only your mental and emotional well-being by doing what's right for you then you will have gained much more than you've lost.

  EDIT: just wanted to address one quote of yours tho:

  I would like to see them exposed as no different than any other religion or cult that presumes to speak for God.

  I have seen this puzzling sentiment repeated by many on this board. Really, the outside world does see this about JWs and has known it for a long time. As for the ones inside, what really can you do? There are 100 times as many Muslims that blindly believe the same thing about their religion too. Its the illogical premise that every single last religion on the planet is built on, and no amount of protestations or well formed arguments from former members of any of these fundamentalist types will really change much.

  Edited by - bonovox on 17 June 2002 17:6:6
• 

  Sabine

  Hi Seaken,

  Your post moved me very much, I can identify with what you are going through. Feeling trapped between two worlds...very crazy making. On the other hand, I can relate to your wife's total indoctrination. It took my husband and I almost two years to leave, EVEN after our daughter's suicide and the horrible treatment afterwards. It is so hard to let go of years of brainwashing, and the fear of not having absolute knowledge of god's plans. It felt like stepping out of a plane without a parashute.

  My goal is to keep my sanity while having to live in this area where all the tragedy happened and I constantly have to look over my shoulder for the local cult members. I'd love to move, but between my son's school and hubby's job I'm stuck here for a few more years. I've tried with no success to open the eyes of a few close jw friends that were very moved by what happened to me. But even with all the hypocrisy and cruelty they saw, they are still too brainwashed to see. One friend even surprized me and said she read Franz book when it first came out...I couldn't believe someone could read it and still be in. It helps me a lot to tell new "worldly" friends about my experiences with the religion. I still get in pioneer hours anti-witnessing.

  My heart goes out to you Seaken,

  Sabine
• 

  TexSham

  USA 1 : England 0

  Fifa 2002 World Cup Final
• 

  Dawn

  Seaken:

  It sounds to me like you have two goals that need to be addressed separately.

  First - You want to be free of the JW's but your life is pretty entangled, not just family wise but your career also - is that correct? Reaching goals can be more easily achieved with a lot of small steps instead of one large one. You probably have a lot of experience now in your line of work - could it be an asset in another company? Perhaps the first step is to take an inventory of your business knowledge and what you could put on a resume. Could you start moving in a direction away from this business so that your job would not be jeopardized if you were DF'd in the future? That would be a real stress reducer for you.

  Second - your family. That's a hard one and Mulan is right, it may take years and patience. But again, it doesn't have to be done all at once. I would take Mulan's advice about pointing out things - being subtle - don't make anyone defensive right now.

  You may not be able to reach these goals immediately - but once you have a plan and start moving in small steps you will feel better - you'll see a light at the end of the tunnel.

  One more piece of advice - you don't have to do this all alone - with your own strength. The JW's a very good at placing themselves between us and Jesus. When I left the JW's I had no relationship with Jesus and did not even consider leaning on him for guidance and help. It just wasn't something I did as a JW - I always looked to the society. It was quite a few years later that I finally realized that Jesus was there for me and could give me strength and guidance if I just asked for it. I didn't need the society, church, anyone to contact him for me - just my own prayer. So pray to him and ask him to give you some strength during this time. I'll pray for you also - my heart really goes out to you, but I really do think you will feel better once you have your "plan" and start to implement it.

  Also - don't underestimate the help that a therapist can give. It is sometimes really helpful to express your fears and situation to someone who can give you an unbiased opinion and help you get grounded - especially for a JW who has had their mind molded for so long by the organization.
• 

  Princess

  ((((Sean)))) So sorry about everything. It must be incredibly stressful for you. Mom's advice is good along with your resolve to no longer keep silent. Since silence isn't working you have to do what feels right to you. This is your life and you need to work on making it good for you. You can't make L happy, that is her responsibility. I think she will come around in time, I was thinking when I was reading your post about how hard your mom dug her heels in after your dad and even my mom left!

  I think you are right about B and "Big Momma", that totally cracked me up.

  Moe, "here" is just north of Seattle in Washington state. Come on up and see us sometime!

  Bonovox,

  If you can't appeal to your wife on the grounds of love for the person that each of you married, not the religious faith, then she isn't worth it and if you don't get out you will be needing more than a bi-weekly appt with a therapist. You may have other interests tied up in it (such as financial which you highlighted) but they are lame reasons to stay with someone.

  Since you don't know Sean or his wife, I think you are totally out of line saying this. It's easy to say his reasons are lame if you know nothing about him and are totally uninvolved.

  Work on re-establishing your self-esteem and do not harp on what you might lose, because if you gain only your mental and emotional well-being by doing what's right for you then you will have gained much more than you've lost.

  That however is great advice!

  Rachel
• 

  SEAKEN2001

  Bonovox,

  my appologies if you are offended. Yes, I did pick up your question and run with it in a different direction. It sparked me in the direction I have been thinking the last couple of days and it required a new topic. I had read so many things this morning that I did not pay attention to who brought up the question. I yield to you.

  As to the other thread I didn't add to it because I felt it was pretty clearly established. I agree with your outlook on that subject, by the way.

  Also,

  Really, the outside world does see this about JWs and has known it for a long time. As for the ones inside, what really can you do? There are 100 times as many Muslims that blindly believe the same thing about their religion too. Its the illogical premise that every single last religion on the planet is built on, and no amount of protestations or well formed arguments from former members of any of these fundamentalist types will really change much.

  100% agreement.

  My thought on that was from the viewpoint of my family, who do not see the JW's as the outside world does.

  I have to disagree with you about the worth of staying with a mate who may not accept the same freedom of thought as you do. That is a personal decision and everyone will decide for themselves what is "worth it" and what is not. And whether someone decides they need or don't need a therpist to talk to is not predicated on religion or anything else. That again is a personal matter. I for one can function just fine even if my wife were hostile to me, which she is not. My freedoms and goals are no more important to me than are hers. That's just my personal belief. I don't expect everyone to share it. I know that some people object to a mate taking up half of their life. But I happen to beleive that if you have a good mate you owe it to them to give of yourself, even if it means emptying yourself for awhile. I won't allow myself to be dominated by my mate but neither will I try to dominate.

  I happen to be struggling with my anger and fears right now but I have not lost my mind. I am willing to explore the new territory of being at odds with my wife on subjects that I have previously considered of utmost importance. I am willing to consider that I can be as much a part of the problem as her. She is not at fault for my having a change of mind. I don't think she will shun me if I'm DF'd. I may be jeopardizing my business future with her family but I am willing to test that.

  I no longer take such a cut and dried approach to things as you seem to be suggesting. Life is just too complex and interesting to be so limited. I prefer to explore and learn new things and experience new insights and I always try to remain balanced. This week I have been having problems with my balance so I am happy to share my thoughts here and get some feed back. I already feel better. And today I took the first step in advancing beyond my former place of silence. More to come.

  Sean
• 

  SEAKEN2001

  Sabine,

  thanks for your comments. Yes, being able to understand how difficult it is to leave that cult makes it easier to be patient. I keep remembering how my Dad put up with my mom and me for more than five years before we came around. I am willing to wait for her but I've got some things I want to do and I'm not getting any younger! Hey, I think I would choose Hawaii over Woodinville too! Although I am partial to your current part of the world having been raised there.

  Ahh, Dawn.

  Thank you for your kind advice. I know you are only trying to help. Believe me when I say that my belief in Jesus did at one time give me a huge support mechanism. I hope that one day you too will advance down the path of life that will allow you to leave the christ behind. Until then, may all your prayers find a hearing ear. Thanks for sending some in my direction.

  Princess,

  are you defending me? Ha ha. Thanks. But I think I understand where bonovox is coming from. I had the tendency once to be so simple. [Uhh, I thought about how I could change this word so as to not cause offense. But I think simple is the correct word]. But now I realize that everyone lives in their own universe and not everything works the same when entering another universe. I think he is just trying to help. I interpret your remark to be saying exactly what I have expressed here. He is not in my universe, is he?

  Yes, you are right. Silence isn't working for me. I need to be more vocal and active. I gave it two years but now it's time for a change.

  Sean