Is It Fair To Discipline Born-Into-It's?

by Englishman 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • Flip
    Flip
    ...The trick for a JW born into the religion is to never get baptized. Stall, avoid, delay, act out a little is necessary ...

    That's easy for you to say Amazing, but a very difficult 'trick' for a young person who's entire 'life', even prior to baptism, is wrapped up as one of Jehovah's Witness without a rational opportunity to truly explore alternatives.

    Although your suggestion is logical, It just isn't that easy...It's beginning to appear to me that individuals who've made a mature, albeit misinformed choice to adhere to the WTBTS 'code of conduct and document production' are a 'breed' apart from those actually 'born into the truth'.

    Flip

  • tdogg
    tdogg

    Affirmation from another born-and-raised. Belief systems are formed upon information we gather. If all that we gather from infancy is JW doctrine then all of our decisions will be based upon those "facts" as we have come to know them. There can be no "choice".

    Children are told what to think and how to feel about religion and then life in general. There is little choosing involved. There is only the choice to please or not to please your parents (and therefore God).

    Not just the Dubs, I see the same thing in the LDS church, Islam, Baptists, any fundies.

    The discipline may even harsher for born-and-raised since members may take it more personally after having watched us grow up in the org. then reject it. We were so "fortunate" to have been born right into the truth and practically had salvation thrown into our laps. To turn away when we get older probably stings those who held out so much "hope" for us, especially parents.

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    Howdy,

    There are actually two different thoughts being expressed in this thread.

    The first one and to answer your question of "whether it is fair to discipline born-into-its" I would say "yes it is fair."

    First discipline is going to come into play if their is some "sin" committed. Assuming that it is appropriate to punish for the particular "sin" in the first place, it should make no difference (from a fairness POV) how long a person is a baptized witness or whether they were raised in the Truth, i.e. it is the SIN and the persons supposed lack of repentance that is the factor that is important not their status (supposedly).

    But beyond that, consider this. A person who is raised as a Witness is likely to see others Disfellowshipped, to shun them and perhaps even to have someone close to them in this status. Therefore, one could say that in comparison to a new convert, the born-into-its are even more accountable for their sins. In fact one could thus say that it is actually more fair to punish them then it is to punish new converts because of their heightened experience with disfellowshipping.

    To put it another way, one big deficiency that I have ALWAYS had a problem with when it comes to Bible Studies is that the person being studied with HAS NO CLUE of the social consequences of DF'ng. In fact, I would wager that in MOST bible studies are never prepared for this potential consequence of membership and it is probably not one of the topics of studies as they progress towards membership. At most, I believe the whole concept of Disfellowshipping is used as selling point of the religion in how JWs are willing to expel wrongdoers. This is meant to be an obvious sign of the true christian organization and promoted as a GOOD THING. Even if conceptually the potential convert (bible study) understands that if they get baptized they can find themselves DF'd in the future, because they haven't had any experience in seeing it happen to someone they care about they have no grasp of the social ramifications.

    So if you follow what I am saying, again it would seem MORE FAIR to discipline persons raised as a Witness who SHOULD have a better understanding of what it means to be DF'd and seek to avoid getting in that state with greater vigour than a convert.

    The SECOND idea that most have posted in this thread goes to the situation where persons were baptized TOO YOUNG.

    I agree that the pressure of early baptism is a reality and a terrible facet of the org. We are talking about lifetime commitment (supposedly) and so in my view we should treat the situation like we would treat any other lifetime commitment (most obviously marriage).

    Would we encourage a young person (even someone under 18 years old) to get married?Maybe, but it probably is not a good idea and most reasonable persons would say definitely not! Likewise persons under 18 should not be pressured into getting baptized for all of the same reasons they would not be encouraged to get married at an early age.

    The good news is that the youth of this generation are tech-savvy and Web-proficient. That means that despite the current admonitions against the Internet (and future stronger prohibitions which I foresee) on the part of the Org. these younger folks in the future are going to be exposed to the counter-information and what is available on the Net. Thus we can hope that they will be able to make a better informed choice then generations of Witnesses which have preceded them.

    --Eduardo

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    That's easy for you to say Amazing, but a very difficult 'trick' for a young person who's entire 'life', even prior to baptism, is wrapped up as one of Jehovah's Witness without a rational opportunity to truly explore alternatives.

    I was born and raised, and I am not going to lie I felt pressure to get baptized, from 11-21...ten long years of watching my friends do it, planning on when to do it so they could do it together etc. I was not encouraged to look for alternatives no, but I did it on my own. When questioned by friends and family I simply cited the example that Jesus went off at an early age without his parents conset to talk to religious leaders for himself...I'm just doing the same. I visited with preists, went to synagouges, didn't go to a mosque because there wasn't one nearby, but I did my research on my own.

    I was immersed, I do have total withdrawl symptoms from being cut off from every friend I have ever had. Again, I realize for each person things are different, and pressures are different. I went through a lot of pressure myself, depression, introspection, and the like, but I made my choices for me...as I said situations are different for everyone, levels of control, personality types, etc. But I think people do have free will and you can exercise it at any age.

  • obiwan
    obiwan

    So let's say a person can't get baptized till say 20,how many of you would have been involved with someone and would have changed there minds before that,there are so many life changeing experiances,for instance my mother died when I was 18 after that it was down hill from there if that type of rule would be in place I would not have gone through it.By the way I was baptized at 15.Think about it, Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 because he was deemed mature,at 30 so if Jesus a perfect person was not baptised till then how can the WT expect a 15 year old to really know the decision he is making?

    Edited by - obiwan on 18 June 2002 17:42:39

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey E-man,If your born into it you should know better!!..At least thats the crap I had shoved down my throat..Dubs have idiot answers for anything..OUTLAW

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