Is It Fair To Discipline Born-Into-It's?

Englishman

A born-into-it teenager or maybe someone in their early 20's, gets DF'd for an unspecified offence. Later the DF'd person protests that DF'ing is unscriptural and inhumane, only to be told "You knew the score, you knew what would happen, it's your fault".

But is it? Maybe it might be fairer for a converted person to be DF'd for breaking the rules, after all, a converted person has joined the JW's willingly and has therefore accepted the witness rules. My pont is that a born-into-it witness has never had that choice, he has not been given the choice of whether or not to accept the rules, rather, those rules have been thrust upon him by his parents.

Logically then, if grows older and decides that he does not wish to remain a witness, he should be allowed to leave without recrimination. After all, he did not choose to live the witness life, others made that decision for him. If it was necessary for Jesus to reach the age of 30 before he was considered to be mature, how much more so is it necessary for a born-into-it witness to reach a similar age before he can be considered a candidate for disfellowshipping?

Englishman.

Mister Biggs

E-Man...

I dig what you're saying. But at what age do you draw the line? My mom and sister started studying when I was 8 years old. I wasn't "born into it" but I don't feel like I had much of choice. Your thoughts, please.

Also, great point about Jesus being 30 before he got baptized. I never thought about that before. Thanks for aiding me in my thoughts!

Amazing

Hi E-Man: Excellent points. The trick for a JW born into the religion is to never get baptized. Stall, avoid, delay, act out a little is necessary ... but never take the fatel trip to do the dip ... never go through the 227 Questions. Then technically, a non-baptized JW cannot be DF'd or DA'd ... and the last I checked they are not to be shunned.

blindfool

Great point E-man,

The DF policy seems harsh especially with the born into its and the ones who were babtised as minors.

Biggs,

I don't see much difference between your situation and someone being born into the religon. Most 8 year olds would not be able to disagreee with their parents about whats for dinner, much less what church they will attend.

Englishman

Mister Biggs,

You had absolutely no choice at all at age 8!

My personal thoughts: It's plainly obvious to anyone that children are TAKEN to meetings, on the doors etc. The choice is not theirs at all. Now, when a born-into-it leaves home, marries, whatever, he is now only just starting to even consider his choices. This considering could well take a few years before he makes a final choice either way. So, 30 would probably be an appropriate age for decisions to have been made.

I just think that DF'ing anyone under that age is even more grossly unfair than ordinary DF'ing of converts.

Englishman.

SpiceItUp

The trick for a JW born into the religion is to never get baptized. Stall, avoid, delay, act out a little is necessary ... but never take the fatel trip to do the dip ... never go through the 227 Questions. Then technically, a non-baptized JW cannot be DF'd or DA'd ... and the last I checked they are not to be shunned.

That would be my story....I stalled and avoided....and acted out big time. Never got baptised. I cannot be DF'd and the member do speak with me if they see me out and about. I have been shunned by a handful maybe but all in all they don't treat me that badly.

You had absolutely no choice at all at age 8!

I think that you are never given the choice if you are born into it. My parents did not give up on forcing it down my throat until I was 18. Now they sorta kinda accept that I am not one and probably never will be. Its only on occassion that my mother or sister tries to give me a mag. BTW - my parents just had a 3 day assembly and of coarse my mother had to show me the new releases. They have 2 new books and a brochure. I will get the names if anyone is interested.

Spice

joannadandy

I agree, that you didn't have a choice. I was born into it and told my whole life it was my choice to make when I was ready--that turned out to be a bunch of crap--and apparantly you can make the WRONG choice, which I did.

I didn't get DF'd because I didn't get baptized, I didn't dissassociate myself because I was associated really. As for the Jesus being baptized at thirty-I USED THAT ALL THE TIME-because I got lots of crap for having not been baptized by my teens.

However, if a born into it gets DF'd they can only be DF'd if they were baptized. So obviously at some point they bought into. Maybe for the wrong reasons, pressure, whatever...but they have the whole series of questions and study before you get baptized, so it was their choice. And even tho it wasn't my choice to be in it, I knew all the rules from the word go. I don't think this person has a valid arguement. Born into it or not, we knew what was considered right and wrong and the consequences for it.

As for my own personal shunning, it's never been out and out, but word as spread I don't go to meetings anymore, and just the other day I saw a lady from my own hall, she looked at me and walked away...not that I much care, I pretended I didn't see her either...hahaha!

Edited by - joannadandy on 17 June 2002 9:43:27

Edited by - joannadandy on 17 June 2002 9:45:12

Lady Lee

Hmm considering the mind control and indocrination did anyone really have a choice? let's face it the borg isn't exactly honest about what people are signing up for. And most would have said NO if they had full disclosure ahead of time

Basically I do agree though

teenyuck

However, if a born into it gets DF'd they can only be DF'd if they were baptized. So obviously at some point they bought into. Maybe for the wrong reasons, pressure, whatever...but they have the whole series of questions and study before you get baptized, so it was their choice. And even tho it wasn't my choice to be in it, I knew all the rules from the word go. I don't think this person has a valid arguement. Born into it or not, we knew what was considered right and wrong and the consequences for it.

This I have to disagree with. I got baptized because I thought armageddon was coming in 1975 and if I did not I would be dead. I did not have a choice. If I wanted to be with my family in paradise, I had to get baptized.

I did not have the capacity to know what decisions were wrong....I was 13! I did not know all the rules. Because I could recite some questions properly (I got quite a few wrong and they still dunked me) does not mean that I understood what fornication was....or any of the other things that lead to DFing.

I did not understand the consequences. I saw people DFd and come back. Big deal....there did not seem to be too many bad conquences.

As I got older and understood what DFing was all about and how shunning worked, I realized that something was wrong. With an organization that believes a child can make a life altering decision at age 13!!!

Mister Biggs

puffsrule...

Your comment (response) really struck a nerve with me. I got baptized in 1984 at the ripe old age of 14! I did it because A) My close friends were getting baptized and B) Armageddon was supposed to be coming any day now and I would die if I wasn't baptized.

I know I got quite a few "baptismal questions" wrong. Yet, they allowed me to get baptized. Believe me, I was not one of those exemplary young folks who was an example to the congregation. There's no way that they should have allowed me to get baptized. I can say that now because as an adult I recall how immature I was back at the age of 14.

So, puffs, I am in harmony with your feelings!

Is It Fair To Discipline Born-Into-It's?

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