by PopeOfEruke 27 Replies latest jw experiences
IW
I didn't mean to imply the woman wanted to CONDUCT the service. The Elder conducted the service, she meant just to read a poem. I have been to many Catholic funerals and reading by all sorts of people are welcome, including children. Even one had singing. But the priest still conducted it.
And the reason this lady she was refused was only because she was wearing slacks! If she had a dress on, it may have been OK. What difference do clothes make??? Sexism rules in the Borg.
Pope
You're right Pope...disgusting treatment and very insensitive. I also think LB is right...they take the opporutnity for a 'good' witness. I know this is the case...as our PO often discussed the funeral talks with my ex...and he always wanted it to have an impact on the worldy relatives. During the talks there was usually little recognition given to the individual's life. Maybe a little mention, but the rest of the talk is based on their hope for the future.
When there are cultural clashes...this is when it gets difficult and offensive. I have seen JW pall bearers move the body out of a kingdom hall because worldly relatives want to stand and speak...this is not only rude, but very offensive to my culture. It is a practice of my people that the dearly departed be given honour with a few words from local tribal elders...and if the speech conflicts with jw teachings...JW elders will initiate closure on the funeral proceedings.
I have seen this happen so many times..and instead of it being a good witness...it always left a negative impact on the worldy people who attended.
I'm so glad to be out of all that now.
Beck
Edited by - Beck_Melbourne on 17 June 2002 0:25:58
Unfortunately,
Memorial talks are really run by the same beauracratic standards as everything else in the congregation. At least they could be honest and tell they're followers that their lives mean very little, it's all for show.... Memorial talks are just a formality, and everyone knows it. They're no different than df hearings, district conventions, the written review, or a special talk about the dangers of masturbation. Sick? yes, it is. That's why we left. There's not a single person reading this who doesn't realize that a person's apparel is not as important as the individual wearing them. As hard as it is for a bunch of sick men to believe otherwise....
Nothing personal about the deceased was mentioned.
Even when I was a devote JW, JW funerals made me ashamed to be one. At every JW funeral I attended, I could take the name of a brother or sister in the audience and substitute it for the deceased's name. The talk always fit perfectly.
My worldly relatives were always disgusted at the Witnesses whenever they attended the funeral. They could tell the funeral talk was just to promote JW beliefs to a captive audience, and that zero concern for the deceased was shown.
I have heard that not all JW funerals are this bad, but all that I have attended were. The funeral talk was always canned, with blank lines for inseting the deceased's name. Any dead body in the casket would do, as long as it brought in wordly people to be witnessed to.
Richard
JW funerals are weird. Ive had so many good and bad experiences. Although I disagree that all services are canned speeches that are identical. I know personally that my step-father was always sought out to give memorial services for both JW and non-JWs on my mothers side as he had a decidely meek and compassionate manner about him and would not use funerals as an opportunity to preach. On two occasions when we buried JWs on my mom's side they specifically asked for him on their death beds, and were very specific in what they wanted said, in terms of their hope in the resurrection. I guess he was just respecting their wishes.
Here are two that happened to me recently, on my father's side of the family:
My grandfather, who was never a JW, died, leaving behind my grandmother, a devoted JW all her life pretty much (and one with a heart of gold, god bless her), and a mix of JWs, xJW and never-JW children. My father wanted to say a few words at the funeral, which was going to be held in a KH. My uncle, the firstborn of the family and an elder, was coordinating everything and said that my father was not going to be allowed to speak from the platform at the KH. Rightfully so, most of the family thought this insane as Grandpa had never been a JW (just sympathetic, you know, the assemby/memorial attending type). So two days before the funeral the venue was moved to a local funeral home. The elder who was giving the talk still came and delivered a moving speech, very neutral in terms of any form of doctrinal stuff, and also attended the viewings, very warmly greeting me and my father, who was very vocally anti-JW for many years (well until he became RC and calmed down alot). My father was able to give his eulogy and then after the funeral there was a wake at my Grandma's house that the JWs in her congregation catered all the food and everything for. We all went and notably my father and uncle had a very long chat and apparently resolved some major life-long grudges they had harbored against each other, some JW-related, some not.
The deaths didnt stop there though, as a couple of months later the same uncle who was adamant that my father could not speak at the KH suffered a stroke and died the next day. I dont know exactly what had happened between him and my father the day that we buried my Grandpa but I was pretty amazed to see not only my uncle's funeral held at a KH, with the same clan of JWs, xJWs and never-JWs present, but also to see my once 'apostate' father get up and deliver a eulogy to his brother. Oh, and one other notable memory was my great-uncle, a Catholic priest, sitting in the second row in full RC garb, very disrespectfully scowling and pretending to be asleep with his chin in his chest during the entire service.
Edited by - bonovox on 17 June 2002 13:29:36
Funerals are already emotionally difficult. I'm surprised they even let the DIL read a poem at the KH at all. When my father in law passed away the family was not allowed to do anything but sit and be preached to. Even tho the brother who gave the funeral talk tried not to be so canned, he had to follow Borg policy. There was hardly any mention of my FIL's life, things he enjoyed, the stories about his family, all those little things that help family and friends heal. It is a memorial - doesn't that mean remembering the life of the deceased? Most of those who attended were non JW family and neighbors, very few from the KH. Don't think the non JW family and the neighbors had their hearts softened to hear the "Kingdom message." If anything they will probably slam the door in the faces of the Dubs the next time they come to the door.
My heart goes out to you Pope. Wish I could make the hurt go away.
Mrs R
My first experience with loss was the death of my granma. She was the sympathetic type as well, never baptized, but attended occasionally. My mother and her family had granma's "service" at the KH, and I was at this point no longer a part of the borg, and rather hateful towards them. Some guy, who probably never gave my Gram the time of day, gave the "eulogy". The first 10 mins were the notes that my mom and her siblings gave him, the rest of the 40MINS was a damn sunday talk...I was a mess needless to say. The first time I experience a death, I don't get a chance to say goodbye, I'm preached at by some dumbass that doesn't even KNOW my Gram, and countless people who see me crying are telling me that I'll see her soon again!!!!! Ironically, her death is one that I have never been able to heal from. In March '01 my Granpa, (her husband) passed away, so I got to relive the whole thing again...but now I'm a bit more mature and wiser to the borg and their "memorials". I am dreading the day my mom passes because I'll have to do this ALL over again. I think the real pissoff for me last year when the idiot onstage says: "and we have lots of this good news in our literature, at the bookcounter located at the back of the Hall"
AAAGGGHHH!!! I was sitting in the front row beside my sister, and I think I sqeezed her hand a little too hard when I heard this!! :)
Dottie
Around our area the tables were turned on the local jw's. An elderly lady who had converted to jwism from Salvation Army which the rest of the family were, died. While she was in the hospital at the end the local cong of jw's tried to sneak in to see her as the fam was trying to keep them out! Anyways, she died and at the local funeral home where she was waked two of her many kids were always on duty at the door and turned away anyone who they thought were jw's! I asked a jw I knew how they could tell and she said because they were dressed better than anyone else that showed up... but the screams of persecution were loud and clear all around. They never think that what goes around comes around?
I remember going to a funeral for my aunt.She was a nice lady ,but eventually smoked herself to death.They had an Anglican funeral,and then a wake at my deceased aunts house.The perfect opportunity for my mom to get on her soap box.She says to the people at the wake,Oh no!Jan`s not in heaven,she`s in the dirt,dead as a door nail,but after armagedon god will ressurrect her.It didn`t seem to comfort anyone,in fact she pissed alot of people off!! It wasn`t the first time.(LOL)...OUTLAW
Edited by - OUTLAW on 17 June 2002 22:2:58
AAAAK I was up at 4:30 this morning after a dream about my mother's funeral. She is still alive.
But since we don't talk (because I am apostate - not that we really talked anyways) I know that family members who are JWs will try to arrange the funeral. Actually I will be surprised if they even contact me but I am hoping the non-JW side will call.
Of her five children not one is a JW. I am the oldest. If I do hear of it I think I want to be there. I don't want the borg taking over. I don't want an indoctrination speech given. I want my siblings and I to have the opportunity to say goodbye to this woman in a way that will bring us closure to a life of abuse and neglect.
I doubt I could stop them from doing their own thing but I'll be damned if I let them stop me from doing what I and the rest of us need.
My sister says our mother has willed her estate to the borg - doubt any of us can do someting about that and well we all get along without anything from her now so it really doesn't matter to me (not that she has a lot anyways.
Thanks for the vent - will be doing some thinking on this. Mother is 68 and apparently not in good health.
