YOU ARE A BUNCH OF ADMIRABLE WINNERS! (page 2)

DevilsAdvocate_DA

Thirdson, you said, "We don’t worry about measuring success by field service time, magazine placements or Bible studies. We don’t measure success by just the material things on life. We measure success in our freedom. Our freedom from imposed guilt, freedom of thought, freedom of expression, freedom to love and be loved for who we are and freedom of belief and worship".

As an active Jehovah's Witness, I wish to say, your thoughts have been my thoughts for more the 45++ years as a witness. Oh there has been many ups and downs, however, having the right mental attitude about LIFE is very important. I learned early, in my twenties, that if I tried to please people, as a whole, I would never win. I have one (1) TRUE friend on this earth, my wife. Everyone else are acquanitances and that would include you if you were around me.
However, I feel very close to Jehovah and Jesus as persons. They have, to my knowledge, never done me wrong.

I personally believe that a person, whomever they may be -- Hndu, Shinto, Jew, Jehovah's Witness, Christendom, etc., etc.,-- should feel free to worship Jehovah God in the way it pleases them, yet keeping in complinance with Gal.5:22. Paul said a mouth full.

I personally have acquaintaces with all the above. We are acquantaces not debaters. We find peace in knowing that we are all humans, with free will, just trying to grant each other the dignity of life.

We try to bar the four dividers of life out of our lives. Age, religion, politics, race. We don't always achive this, but we keep trying. The KEEP TRYING is very important.

Just my input to your good post.

Thanks

DA

Edited by - DevilsAdvocate_DA on 4 March 2001 19:24:36

AuSet

Justbeingafriend

I left the witnesses because I was kicked out by getting disfellowshiped. I had a worldly boyfriend and eventually the elders found out. But for years, deep down inside, I had doubts about what I was being taught, and would sometimes voice those doubts. Especially what was forced down my throat about how women "enjoy being under a ceiling of authoriy" (that's from the family book, i think)
I was a naturally independent thinker, and eventually these thoughts lead me in a direction away from the WBTS. I was encouraged not to go to college and that's exactly what I did!
Try NOT to engage your friend in direct discussion of his/her belief systems. This will only serve to drive them away from you. Remember, you're "worldly." Your friend has been taught to fear you and your beliefs, because they are different. However, DO encourage your friend to branch out, i.e., go to college, participate in any activity outside of the Kingdom Hall.
Do you know this person in real life or is this an internet relationship? That could change the dynamics of your relationship quite a bit. (They may not find you as threatening over the internet, but at the same time your relationship may be easier to break off: tread lightly!)

Thirdson

DA,

You have a very enlightened approach. I agree that when it comes to race, politics and age we should celebrate our differences not fight over them. The same is true for religious belief and for that matter disbelief. We are all on the same journey -- different paths.

Unfortunately, my association with other Christian denominations (Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Roman Catholic and others) could get me deemed as disassociatated (a JW fight) if it wasn't for the fact that I left by moving house and not reporting at the local JW congregation. My parents have not shunned me because I am "family" although my one brother takes a different attitude.

You take an approach not sanctioned by the WTS and your very presence here could be regarded as breaking 2 Cor 6:15 (WTS interpretation). But thanks for your thoughts and for sharing here. I hope you will play "Devil's advocate" and make for some interesting discussions.

Regards,

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

logical

When I open this topic it plays with my floppy drive.

Why???

logical

Ah, thats why. Its Devil's Advocates fault.

justbeingafriend

AuSet
Thanks for the reply to my post..yes I meet this person on-line..in a chat room..and he approached me...I am his friend unconditionally..and I always will be..his beliefs are his own..and I am not trying to change him...all I wanted to do was discuss them..As for him going to college..he runs a successful business of his own..Things happen for a reason I believe..and one thing I have learned is about jw....what their beliefs are..read numerous testimonials on those that have left..and about those that are hurting because of what they were taught..it never leaves them.What I am trying to say..is that if it hadn't been for my friend telling me he was jw and since he never told me what his beliefs were,I went searching for my own answers..and found out how those beliefs differ from my own.He has said he is still my friend..but I lately I don't see any evidence..and slowly he is"shunning" me and it is an emotional thing.It isn't right for an organization to tell a person who his/her friends should be..for God says to love one another..unconditionally..

justbeingafriend

TR

logical,

this isn't the kind of topic that will stimulate a floppy drive. You need something else to play with your floppy drive so that it will become a hard drive. Perhaps a visit to the "sex" forum.

TR

Thirdson,

Thanks for those words of encouragement.

I do feel for those who aren't able to break free at this point. For various reasons, JW's are being held against their will. We need to continue our efforts to show those people that there is hope. Various ways of breaking free have been discussed on this forum. Perhaps the most uneventful and cautious way is too just walk away. Move without giving reason. That's an easy way to stop attending meetings. It may give a person time to reflect, to gather thoughts. This way, a person can still keep in contact with relatives and friends. "Not forsaking the gathering together" is the only rule of WT law outwardly being broken. But remember, it's a WT law. You can gather with others of faith, if you wish.

TR

DevilsAdvocate_DA

Thirdson, I understand were you are coming form.

However, I believe if you and I were with the man named Paul, in the Bible, in and about the years 55 CE we would see a man who was trying very hard to apply what he wrote at 1 Cor.10:31-33 and 1 Cor.9:19-20.

I do not, however, believe he shared, fraternized, in their practices that were out of harmony with Jehovah's guidelines. He knew were he stood with Jehovah on this matter.

I do believe we would find a man, like you and myself, who shared his
time and knowledge with all he came upon.

I do not believe that man, Paul, spent all his time with just the christians of the day and let no one into his realm of life.

No, from what I read about that man, he was truly open minded and fair. He did not seperate himself into a special class of people, as we see the WBTS trying to do today with it members, for control purposes. Let me say, I do not believe the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses are intelligent enough to come up with this controlling idea. I believe they are being used, unknowingly, by the Devil and his dupes to divide and conquer.

Thirdson, let me say, I know most of the ones up in the Tower, even the new appointees. These guys are not intelligent enough to come up with this control freaking that has popped up in and about 1975-80.

If Paul were here today, I believe he, you and I would have a lot in common.

Paul let Jehovah and His son Christ Jesus run the show. This man, Paul, allowed Jehovahs' Holy Spirit to control, in a good way, his and others good consciences and to use their free will. That's what I do and I believe I am correct in saying thats what you do.

Like Paul, I am a free moral agent. I descide what I accept into my life, not my fellowman or organizations. I agree with Paul in what he said at 1 Cor.7:40a "I certainly think I also have God's spirit."

DA

thinkers wife

DA,
Let me welcome you to the board, if I haven't already.
You do have a very unusual mindset for one of JW's, if I may say so. It is a commendable one.
I agree, that the WT has deviated drastically from the examples in the Bible.
My husband, Thinker has been dying to communicate with a still active JW. He is not argumentative, just seeking open discussion.
Our email is open if you would feel comfortable doing so.
Congratulations on being a more open minded witness.
TW

YOU ARE A BUNCH OF ADMIRABLE WINNERS!

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