Why did the org "forgive" KH mortgages?

by Magnum 22 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  Magnum

  I know this has been discussed, but I think it's good that topics like this get brought back up from time to time for the sake of newbies and lurkers, plus, I have a question (related at end of post).

  The org brags about "forgiving" KH mortgages as if it's so loving and giving. I put the word in quotation marks because most of us realize it wasn't forgiving anything. The new arrangement should actually bring it far more money.

  For example, suppose there are twenty congregations total. Five have mortgages that will be paid off in ten years. So the org has coming in ten years of payments from five congregations. Then it cancels the mortgages, but requests the congregations that had mortgages to make donations close to the amounts of the former mortgage payments each month from now on - not just the next ten years. Also, it requests the fifteen congregations that didn't have mortgages to make donations each month from now on. So now, instead of five congregations making payments for ten years, the org has twenty congregations making payments in perpetuity.

  The org definitely seems to be benefitting greatly from its kind "forgiving". My question, though. is what is it that moved the org to make this change? It seems that I remember its being mentioned on a past thread that some kind of lending law changed (or something like that) that would make it illegal for the org to loan money the way it was. Can somebody address that question, please?

  Again, was it some kind of lending law change or something like that that prompted or forced the org to "forgive" loans?
• 

  freemindfade

  This is my conspiracy, but I think the IRS got'em. A non profit religion acting as a lender for loans? I think they may have thought they had a loop hole and didn't and it bit them in the ass.

  And they didn't forgive shit, just had to change the perception and what it was on paper. They have smart accountants.
• 

  breakfast of champions

  I agree with FREEMINDFADE. Something's up either regarding taxes or the U.S. govt. Personally I think it's the govt.

  I was a grand juror on a case regarding a religious institution who was running its "charity" like a bank: they loaned money, charged interest. . . the whole bit.

  We indicted basically because if it walks like a bank, talks like a bank. . . . ITS A BANK! and must be accountable to the government.

  After hearing the case, I wondered to myself, What's the difference between what this institution did and what the society does, other than the society does it on a far larger scale!
• 

  pixel

  With this new arrangement, I have seen 2 cases happening:
  

  Case 1:

  Credit card company: "Hello John Doe, we will cancel your $50.00 payments that you pay every month!"

  John Doe: "Great! Thanks! Such a wonderful company. What should I do to get this going?"

  Credit card company: "Nothing. We cancelled your $50.00 payment. The only thing you have to do is send us $15.00 instead for the rest of your life. Ain't it a deal?"

  John Doe: "Oh..."

  Case 2:

  John Doe: "Great! I just finished paying my credit card! I have a zero balance!"
  

  Credit card company: "Ah, nope! Actually, you gotta pay us $15.00 for the rest of your life."

  John Doe: ":-("

  In both cases, our friend John Doe loses. In both cases, the congregation loses.
  
• 

  Sour Grapes

  I borrow money from a bank to buy a new house. I pay the bank back in 20 years with interest. After 20 years of making payments to the bank, now the bank owns my house. The bank then forgives my loan after I pay the house off, as long as I make the same payment each month to the bank for forever.
• 

  freddo

  Don't forget - if a pair of congs sharing a hall had saved up say 100K towards a build but that build was some way off they were "encouraged" to hand over the loot, keep just enough to tick over and make a monthly payment as well!

  No guarantee their hall is gonna get a refurb/replace now as it is totally in the society's hands not the local elders.

  A hall two miles down the road from me is old - like 100 years old, non purpose built - and the cong has been saving for years and got over 100K. (£) They have sent the loot to the branch and I bet their hall will disappear and they will be forced to share with the next hall and drive ten miles to it.

  Imagine that in a circuit you have 20 congs sharing 12 halls. So the society sell four halls and now you have 20 congs sharing 8 halls. Let's say the society replace one hall with a new one and refurb another per circuit.

  4 halls sold - so a million bucks comes in. 1 gets replaced at 250K - 1 gets a refurb at 100K. Society get 650K in cold blood. Sorted. Oh plus a monthly donation.
  

  Do that all over the western world - Candace Conti gets her lolly and so do all the others and the GB keep their rolexes and pinky rings and 1st class flights to their holiday (errrr... I mean translation office) in Florida.
  
• 

  Finkelstein

  As far as I'm aware these loans had no interest attached, so to say the IRS got after them is ????

  I think it had something to do with the fact the WTS having a big chunk of money from its real estate sales in Brooklyn New York .

  There was most likely a fair amount sitting in bank accounts collecting interest anyways, before the Brooklyn sell off.
  

  So now they say their funds are down low and they are asking for more money out of each congregation ?

  But they are building a new HQ branch in England for over 100 mil. ???
  
• 

  John Aquila

  Again, was it some kind of lending law change or something like that that prompted or forced the org to "forgive" loans?

  Before the arrangement, the KHs were paying back a loan. After the new arrangement, it’s not considered a loan, it’s considered a contribution or a gift.

  If I have a business that lends money, I have to report it as business income. The WT does not want to be labeled as a business. But if several people give me money, I have no business, someone was just nice enough to give me a gift and the giver is responsible for paying the tax on the gift, not me.

  Who pays the gift tax?
  The donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax. Under special arrangements the donee may agree to pay the tax instead if he wishes.

  http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Frequently-Asked-Questions-on-Gift-Taxes#1
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  _Morpheus

  To top it off the obvious is being overlooked: The money that was "loaned" to congregations was donated to the org by congregation to begin with. The org does not generate income. They have no money to lend.... So to sumerize congregations donate money to the org. The org "loans" it back to congregations to build a KH.... A kingdom hall the org itself OWNS lock stock and barrel! Its is the ultimate scam.
• 

  Tenacious

  When I first heard it I personally thought it to be a blessing for those with outstanding mortgages. Then when I heard the last part of implementing an open ended mortgage payment I thought twice and didn't agree with it.

  After giving it some serious thought, I figured out it was a calculated well thought out move by the org knowing they would come into some serious dough. They knew how many outstanding mortgages there was and probably how much money congregations had in their savings. In the end, they knew approximately how much they would gain, especially with the open-ended note.

  They, as in the GB, are stupid men who wouldn't know business even if a stock option certificate was shoved up their ass, instead they rely on shrewd business consultants to steer the org's finances in the best way possible.