The Mosaic Law (Is it still Valid) (page 3)

objectivetruth

Humbled - We all cherry pick scriptures : ) It's impossible to use the Bible as a Guide without doing this.

Many claim that Gentiles are / were under the "Noahide" Laws 7 Laws apparently given to Noah, when he left the Ark. It is said that All Humans are under these Eternal 7 Laws.

I personally feel that all Humans should Folllow The Proper Mosaic Law. The confusion comes from statements such as "For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Gal 5:14 )

Some take this to mean, that the Law of Christ is Simply Love of our fellow man, and following Principles of Love.

Gal 5:14 is not a new "christian" mentality though, the Law of God has always been summed up this way.

It is possible that the Writer of Gal 5:14 was referencing The Talmud..

The Talmud in tractate Shabbos 31a relates the following well-known story of Hillel: "On another occasion it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him, "Make me a proselyte, on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Thereupon he chased him away with the builder's cubit that was in his hand.When he came before Hillel, (he also asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while standing on one foot) Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah while the rest is commentary; go and learn it."

The point is that God's law is always summed up by fewer but Greater Laws. The most important of these laws being Love.

So in regards to the Laws placed upon Gentiles at Acts 15:20.. Abstaining from blood,Imorality and food sacrificed to idols, are important requirements, but they are not the only requirements.. (Murder?)

Acts 15:21 gives an important clue.. " For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.” This can imply that the prohibitions of blood, food sacrificed to idols and fornication were summaries of smaller laws, in addition to the Well Established teachings of Moses (Torah) , which were so fundamental, they were read in The Synagogue weekly.

objectivetruth

Humbled - Responding to this question.. " If the material teachings were indeed Love, Peace, Pacificism (needs discussion), Forgiveness, Humility, Tolerance, then I am still a christian even if I despise and do not believe the tripe from the churches?"

"Religion" as we know it is a Man Made tradition.. The concept of attending a Church service weekly, and fulfilling our spiritual and religious responsibilities is a Fallacy.

An even greater Fallacy is "belief" .. So many claim that we must "believe" in order to gain salvation.. This is indeed tripe, as you use the word :)

The religion of Christ (And his followers) was Judaism.. Judaism is not a "religion", it is a way of life, and it permeates every second of Life. David was a Jew, and he refused to believe or support Tripe " I do not spend time with liars or go along with hypocrites." (Psalm 26:4)

True Religion is not about Religion.. It is about Serving each other, and thus serving God. If you do not attend a church service, you are only missing "association" you are not displeasing God.

Pterist

ObjectiveTRuth ...OP "mosaic law still valid" ?

Scriptures (NT) tells us Jesus fulfilled all of the mosaic law and susequently he inherited all of the blessings. He became the source of these blessings to the world as the nation of Israel failed to do. 70 AD confirmed that the sacrificial and creamonial laws was ended since Jerusalem was destroyed as history confirms.

The only obligations we have as Christians is the moral law as summed up in the 10 commandents, NOT as a condition for gaining salvation but as a result of our new nature that enables us to overcome the sin problem within.

No system of laws and jails and punisment can change our nature or warrant the gift of eternal life. We are freed FROM SIN NOT FREED TO SIN !

My 2 cents ;)

objectivetruth

Pterist - Very True.. " We are freed FROM SIN NOT FREED TO SIN !"

humbled

My problem with Mosaic Law even now--It does not ensure even the proper care of a cow--just as the law doesn't protect one human from another. The idea of love one's neighbor as one's self has always been the single law to inform Jesus' followers. It was the thorough-going aspect of that Golden rule in jesus' life that made him beautiful to me. No wiggle room for me in that.

And that about sacrifice not being a command from God I learned as I researched the very different words for sacrifice (zebach) and for burnt offering (olah). I reasoned on this in the puzzle of the Genesis 22 drama. "Offer your son as an OLAH" I like that you present it. It was a point that kept me believing for a while.

But here I have to say the labyrinth of study needed to arrive at these reflections must be superfluous to knowing how we are to live. I have had a life lived with far too many difficulties as a woman and a mother of seven. So often without running water. Often without electricity. Milking goats, cooking on wood stoves and so forth.(and I say this not that I look for admiration--I think it can be fairly argued that we were foolish and not commendable) these times informed me that women at least such as myself would never have had opportunity to stand on one foot in front of Hillel and found insight there. Instead, it would be by feeling the blazing warmth of respect and the thought that our own enjoyment of that dignity through the example of a Jesus we might thus understand. The golden rule is the supreme teacher.

I treat my cow as I would myself be treated--even if I eat her. Anyone who finds this laughable and yet eats a steak is laughing at me and I know I am more merciful than they--(O pride)

The Bible is far to chancey a guide for me to believe it was heaven sent. Crimes are too possible for those who use laws only and who relegate the golden rule to a slogan for the kindergarden.

Unadorned, I love the Jesus story--minus virgin births and resurrections.

I do appreciate your unaffected discussion. Something rare.

sowhatnow

so whats the verdict? are we or are we not supposed to be following these mosaic laws?

objectivetruth

You Just summed up The Law perfectly.. " There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth." The Gospel of Christ is not Prophecy or Doctrine or Religion.. It is Love.

Deuteronomy 18:10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering" - How does this statement from Yahweh, correlate with the allegation that he asked Abraham to offer Isaac as an offering. Or how much more so could God condemn child sacrifice, only to Show Hypocrisy and sacrifice his own.. Something Must Give.

Men Lie.

Deut 18:18 "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. " - Only one man did not lie.. (1 Pet 2:22) - This Man Jesus spoke his fathers true Law. It is for this reason that Jesus is Called "the way - the truth - the life" it is by imitating him (Literally) that we live, and find truth.

If Jesus did not stone Adulterers, his father never commanded it.. If Jesus did not sacrifice Animals it was not commanded.. If Jesus did not show Partiallity, God never commanded Partiallity to be shown. It is Quite Simple.

The Law of Christ is The Law of His Father, which is the Law that was Given to Moses, only to be changed and modified, beyond recognition, by Men.

"Jesus saw a man and asked him what he did. The man replied: 'I worship.' Whereupon Jesus asked: 'Who supports you?' 'My brother,' he replied. Jesus said: 'Your brother is a better worshiper than you.'"

You are a strong person, and because of your Attitude, your humility and your perseverance to care for others, you are a True Follower of Christ. I applaud you indeed.

objectivetruth

Sowhatnow - We all have to decide for ourselves, what Law to Follow. If one decides to Follow the Law of Christ, he will follow the Mosaic Law, that Christ followed.

To understand the greatness of The Law of God.. Read Psalm 119 - David understood the True Law, and he delighted in it.

Doug Mason

As JWs are fully aware, the Babylonians took the elite and powerful of Judah into captivity. As they sat by the rivers of Babylon (Psalm 137) and they despaired at the destitute state of Jerusalem and its temple (Dan 9), they sought to understand how it could be that God's chosen people had come to the point of extinction. These were desparate times.

So whom did the priests and scribes blame? It was clear to them that God was punishing the nation because they had failed to heed the warnings of the prophets, the priests of Israel and of Judah. It was everyone else's fault, not the priests'.

To show that this was so, they wrote and rewrote their Scriptures, showing that these warnings had been given and what the people had to do in order for the nation to be restored - and for the priesthood to be restored to its rightful position of supreme authority (this time without the encumbrance of the royal household) - as is shown by the fundamentalist actions of Ezra and of the parties that resulted from the Captivity (Pharisees, etc.).

Scriptures they created/rewrote include Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings. These were all propaganda to suit their purposes. So demands to obedience, for the supremacy of Jerusalem, and so on need to be read in that light. The remainder of the populace, the People of the Land, were illiterate, so we do not know much of their views, although we can gain some idea from the condemnations by the OT writers and from archaeology - they were pluralists, not monotheists, who gave a wife to YHWH, named Asherah, and worshiped them equally.

To read any statement made by the priestly class requires understanding of the contemporary context. Only then can a decision be made on the relevance or otherwise of anything contained in their writings.

Doug

Doug Mason

Pterist,

Where does the Bible use the expession "ten commandments"?

Why do some people say that the words at Exodus 20 were engraved on tablets of stone?

Doug

The Mosaic Law (Is it still Valid)

Share this