by Jonathan Drake 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    As for photos, Simon and my GF would kill me.

    aah--thats a pity DJS--but --just for the record--hers my g/fs ass:

  • DJS

    Brokeback W,

    Your comments: "I think it is important to acknowledge man's spiritual side and not take a extreme materialistic approach to man's psychological condition."

    Assuming I would agree that the spiritual side means having empathy, fellow feeling, deep emotions about family, relationships, nature, justice, etc., the problem I have with the above statement is that it isn't either/or. I don't consider myself spiritual in the least, but I consider myself a deeply caring, sensitive individual. I also don't take an extreme (or even a non-extreme) materialistic approach to anything. I am very much a minimalist and a planet sustainable person. Your comment suggests that without what you consider a belief in a deity one becomes a selfish, hedonistic monster. It isn't supported by empirical data, which suggests the opposite.

    Mankind evolved to deal with the difficulties of being human; it wasn't pleasant for anyone (well maybe the kings and caesars) for 100,000 years and it isn't pleasant for billions now. Most didn't make it past childhood, and the average age of humans, for 100,000 years, is estimated to have been 34 years. Couple that with an evolved awareness of life, the world around them and a desire simply not to die, and it is easy to see why our ancestors were looking for reasons and answers and subsequently created creators, gods, near-gods, used-to-be-gods and wanna-be-gods. Something had to be better than the difficult lives they were living.

    And Oubilette, all apologies regarding the spelling. Darned auto-correct.

  • prologos

    spirituality for me is not words by S.H. facile a oublier, oubliette, but coming home from the blabber at the 'hall' driving in the glorious colours of the setting sun, and have my son re-play the Bach/ Haydn inspired songs 56, 96 on a real grand piano, listening with a beer in my hand. The spirituality is harmonics., good vibes, the juices that go with it. savouring the gifts.

  • done4good

    I don't consider myself "spiritual", unless of course by spiritual you mean zoning out in the family room with Alan Parson's Tales of Mystery and Imagination, (insert other prog. rock album here), a glass of wine, and well...


  • millie210

    Im so glad I checked out this thread!

    A thread where the believers, the doubters, the newly curious and the atheists can all talk kindly and calmly amongst themselves.

    I had pretty much given up hope that it was possible after seeing so many threads turn in to ....well...you know.

    I havent had time to read each of your posts carefully but I will be back and do so eagerly.

    I am very much wanting to learn from the thoughts of those who believe things I dont know much about.

    As long as it can have the climate this thread does.

    marking this thread as something to look forward to later after work.

  • Viviane
    Until someone explains what "spiritual" means I cannot answer the question.
  • Xanthippe
    I've re-read your post and tried to understand what Mr. Harris is trying to say. His definition of spiritual is his definition of spiritual. You can also find it in various dictionaries, almost all of which use words such as non-material, supernatural, soul, having the nature of a spirit. My point, which I believe is relevant to the overall topic and OP, is that spirit/spiritual/spirituality are primarily associated with the unseen god-like forces common in religion. - DJS

    Spirituality is the praxis and process of personal transformation, either in accordance with traditional religious ideals, or, increasingly, oriented on subjective experience and psychological growth independently of any specific religious context. In a more general sense, it may refer to almost any kind of meaningful activity or blissful experience. There is no single, widely-agreed definition for the concept, and the term may be applied to a wide variety of practices.


  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake
    • Viviane3 hours ago
      Until someone explains what "spiritual" means I cannot answer the question.

    The definition of spiritual I'm talking about is strictly Harris sort of spirituality in this book. I can try to summarize this eve, and id very much like your opinion on this book as well if you read it.

  • DJS

    Thanks Xanthippe. I avoid use of the word due to its religious, supernatural connotation, but Harris and others appear to be making its more secular definition relevant. That's probably a good thing. Words have a way of evolving to mean whatever society wants them to mean. I try not to get too hung up on word meanings because they change. Thanks for citing what I was referencing!! You made it much clearer.

    To illustrate the blissful experience. This past weekend my GF and I hiked one of the most beautiful trails in the US. The lower elevations were lush forests with streams, bridges, ferns, etc., while the higher elevations were cooler, drier, rockier, with less vegetation but amazing views. Spiritual. Plus I got to follow her up the trail and view her amazing rear end for several hours. Blissful.

    However, on the way back down the mountain my GF had to use the bathroom. Very badly. If it were me I would have found the closest rhododendron thicket (that and no cellulite are probably our gender's only advantages), but being a girl she held out as long as she could until, about 1/2 mile from the trailhead, she darted to the bathrooms. I'm quite certain that she would tell you the spiritual moment ended as soon as the immediate bodily need arrived. That's my point made on p. 2 of this OP.

    Again, thanks Xanthippe.

  • cappytan
    Here is an interesting article by Sam Harris on Buddhism: http://www.lionsroar.com/killing-the-buddha/

Share this