Account of Jehovah's Witness Women Prisoners in Auschwitz (very creepy)

by objectivetruth 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • prologos
    prologos

    Anti-zionist pretensions by Rutherford would have very little effect on Hitler if his follwers were resisting the sacred Nazi cause, german mastery, the flag salut, party membership, working at armament, joining the army.

    The ladies Hoess observed were probably less swayed on the jewish question by the maneuvering of the WT elite, than their family back ground

    Northen protestant: Jew tolerant

    Southeren catholic = average anti-semitic hardliner.

    These servants may have traveled with their "employer" from other camps when the SS were re-assigned, rather than be recruited from the doomed.

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    prologos, are you referring to northern USA prodestant?

    The south was the hotbed for prodestent churches , not so much for Catholic except the new orleans area.

    Your comment is confusing.

    I am facinated reading up on this subject. The difference in what is taught to the JW as their history and the accounts and stories about the JW from others who were there are so different ( suprise suprise).

    The JW were trusted by the SS because they would obey authorities and not try to get away. They wouldn't have heard of Rutherfords change since the change to superior Godly authorities came after many were already imprisioned by 1929.

  • prologos
    prologos

    Nonjwspouse, no, I am referring the the german ethic scene, where the german northern coast was DANISH in the past, and even today mirrors those liberal attitudes, whereas the south is traditional catholic, harboring the likes of Hitler.

    These Jw domestic helpers held priced positions, often travelling with their employers to foreign countries like Sweden.

    There was a rich subculture in Aschwitz among the Capo, men among the collaborators that had risen to rank. I toook intelligence, luck, charm, to prosper in those unspeakable conditions, but it happened.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    "Welcome to the board, OrphanCrow ! Very interesting post. I hadn't considered that the Society was claiming the Bible Students as their own during WWII. Were there Students in the camps alongside JWs?"

    Thank you, Agnopophos.

    I would think it would be likely that the JWs and Bible Students were lumped together in the camps. Even though Rutherford and Knorr knew of the divisions within the Society, it is highly unlikely that the Nazis knew of the internal strife happening with the Society. The terms Bible Student and Jehovhah's witnesses were interchangable - they both wore the purple triangle. In fact, all religious prisoners and all pacifists wore the purple triangle, including Dawn Bible Students, Free Bible Students, Seventh Day Adventists and Baptists. The JWs claim to be the largest group out of the purple triangles.

    The internal problems with the Society are evident when one examines the historical record and compares it to the Society's revised history. There were problems galore within the structure of the German Watchtower at the time the war was beginning - leftovers from Rutherford's about face and revival of his failing Society that was being led up to in the late 20s and received some resolution with his makeover of the religion in the early 30s.

    There is a good thread on this forum somewhere that exposes the colloboration that occured between Erich Frost, a Society hero, and the Gestapo. Frost betrayed several of the Bible Students and later in the war, sat it out on a little island somewhere. He emerged from the war as a hero but the Society has kept hidden his collaborative efforts that resulted in the imprisonment of many Bible Students during the war. His is not the only account that speaks of betrayal by the Rutherford loyalists.

    I had said in my earlier post that the religion of the Society's was clearly fractured, however, those fractures at the rank and file level would probably still be in the murky stage and would explain the often reported squabbles that broke out in some of the camps with the Bible Students/JWs. There are many reports of the disunity that erupted within the purple triangle group - right alongside reports of how the JWs were cohesive. So cohesive, in fact, that it is the reason some researchers have speculated as to why the JWs emerged from the camps with an over 80% survival rate.

    Other researchers, though, have questioned the collaborative behavior of the JWs who worked for the SS and survived the war in positions of privledge. Of course, the Society spins it that the JWs were honest and loyal to Jehovah and that is the reason they had these positions. I guess they are right on that point to a degree - many were loyal. To the SS. In fact, their loyalty impressed Himmler so much that his plans for a future Germany included using groups of JWs as a vanguard for the Third Reich in their expanded territories. He planned on using the religion as a model for future Germany.

    Something that annoys me to no end is the Society's insistence that they are politically neutral when the history books show us something entirely different. They use the camoflague of not wearing a uniform or engaging in military activities when, in reality, they are hugely political. Their literature is ALL about politics. The post Blondie made reveals that the about face that Rutherford did in the late 20s and early 30s was nothing less than a huge political move. Rutherford, in 1926, came out publicly in support of a Zionist State in Palestine, but, in the years to follow, he appropriated the designation of State of Israel - calling his religion the new Spiritual Israel - and then relocated Palestine to his mansion in California. And he did his doctrinal/political change at a time that he started rubbing shoulders with not only Wm. Heath Sr, but also with Heath's son-in-law who just happened to go on to be the first president of the World Bank. And, something that may be critical to understanding Rutherford's doctrinal shift is that Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and was widely distributed to world leaders and anyone of importance in world politics or who had interest in world politics. The chances that Rutherford had read Hitlers book is pretty high - if he didn't, then he certainly was on the same vibratory wavelength as the little short man with a mustache.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Something that annoys me to no end is the Society's insistence that they are politically neutral when the history books show us something entirely different.

    In a further attempt to appease their enemies, Rutherford published statements in The Watchtower urging Bible Students to buy war bonds, participate in a day of prayer for allied victory and only stopped short of encouraging armed service.The Proclaimers book says:

    "Although they endeavored to do what they felt was pleasing to God, their position was not always one of strict neutrality … Thus, in accord with a proclamation of the President of the United States, The Watch Tower urged the Bible Students to join in observing May 30, 1918, as a day of prayer and supplication in connection with the outcome of the world war. [The Watch Tower, June 1, 1918, p. 174]" (p. 191)

    *** w80 11/15 pp. 26-27 par. 17 "Jehovah of Armies" to the Rescue! ***

    17 Like the Israelites of Isaiah’s day, the spiritual Israelites sold themselves because of wrong practices and came into bondage to the world empire of false religion, that is to say, to Babylon the Great, and to her worldly paramours. (2 Ki. 17:17; 1 Ki. 21:20, 25) An outstanding instance of this occurred during World War I of 1914-1918

    -

    According to the 1934 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, what did the Jehovah’s Witnesses actually tell Hitler regarding their "position" toward the "principles advocated by the government of Germany"?

    "The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire… It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations… The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation. Such is exactly our positionInstead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles." 1934 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, pp. 134-136

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Other researchers, though, have questioned the collaborative behavior of the JWs who worked for the SS and survived the war in positions of privledge.

    I appreciated ADCMS' comment on page 1 that the subservience to the SS officers came naturally for a group of people who were trained to be sheep-like.

    It's kind of hard to believe that the Society brags that the JWs could be counted on to safely shave the SS officers, who were known to execute prisoners as punishment, and in some cases were taking part in the gassing of the Jews. Most people would admit that pacificism can be admirable, but surely there's a point where pacificism that is conveniently self-serving starts to smack of cowardice or unethicality?

    What if we found out that Hitler's photographer was a JW, passing up the opportunity to take his life on many occasions? Or that a JW was aiding in the record-keeping of the camp exterminations and made no attempt to tell the outside world what was happening? Presumably the Society would draw the line at bragging about such hypothetical scenarios, but I do wonder.

    On the subject of political neutrality, I seem to recall Rutherford giving a speech somewhere that had big U.S. flags hanging on each side of the stage, and the Society did not depict the flags when recreating the scene for a recent video, but I might have the details wrong.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    Apognophos, you may be thinking of the JWs Berlin convention in 1933. There are accounts that claim that the Nazi flag was displayed on the stage.

    http://www.bible.ca/jw-penton-3rdreich.htm

    "In a tape-recorded account of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany, former Watch Tower Society "branch servant" or "overseer" Konrad Franke tells that when he and another Jehovah's Witness arrived at the Berlin Sporthalle Wilmersdorf where the 1933 Witness convention was being held, they were shocked. The building was bedecked with Swastika flags - evidently to please the Nazis. Then during the convention itself, the Witness faithful were called on to sing a hymn that they had not sung in Germany for years. While they had no objection to the words, the music was the same as that of the German national anthem, "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles.""

    The German national anthem had been adopted in 1922 and incidentally, was Hitler's favorite front line song during WW1.

  • prologos
    prologos

    The Hayden melody was popular since 1800 ds in german speaking countries, from Austrian Emperors to Kaiser to local church versions. it would be the easiest song to set to the "local needs" of a court-the- nazies conevention. Not all accounts confirm the swastica draped arena, but could be the decorations left from -or for the goebbels harrangues.

    Anti-jewish sentiment was not a staple of the R&F belief. Rejection of the many aspects of Nazi ideology, master race, absolute obedience to the Cause, the leader was.

    many of us have attended conventions, assemblies, where the star spangled banner, The Queen, The cross, Free-mason insignia wer displayed, only sometimes draped over.

  • kaik
    kaik

    I have experienced anti-semitism from elder JWs in Eastern Europe long time ago. Anti-semitism was widespread in KH especially among JWs who went to cult before, during and right after WWII. One elder sister regularly called Jews as Jesus killers who will not be resurrected.

    I am also skeptical on some of the WWII accounts as I have read some postwar documents from retribution tribunals that charged some of the JWs with collaboration and compliance with Nazi regime. When I will be back in Prague, I am thinking to request from DoJ material on JW that deal with this issue. While I am not aware of any case when JW was prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but some of these accussations were brought up into the court and they will be available at archives per requests. For example Reinhard Heydrich, third highest ranking Nazi official assassinated by Czech underground resistance in 1942 employed bunch of JWs as his servants at chateau outside of Prague. These JWs lived there in relative comfortability and abundance at Brezany until May 1945. After war some of the JWs were indeed charged by revolutionary tribunal as did many people who were employed by Nazi regime.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    objectivetruth

    This sounds very much like a quote from a book I read many years ago , back in the 70`s or 80`s . " Commandant of Auschwitz " by Rudollf Hoess .

    I remember it well because I quoted from the book in a student talk I gave during the ministry school , and my wife chided me for saying jestapo instead of gestapo .

    My take in the talk was how even criminal regimes were impressed by the faith and resolve under trying circumstances they stood steadfast unwavering.

    smiddy

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