Dr. Bethea-Jackson

by drahcir yarrum 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    Pat and drachir,

    I'm with you, what was that all about? I didn't see anything particular off base with drachir's topic.

    Dungbeetle, what's up?

    If I understood correctly, drachir, you were reinforcing the thought that pseudo-doctor Bethea-Jackson was full of shit. I agree. I was around 20 years ago and can confirm that child-abuse issues were no less of a concern for parents than they are now. Is she trying to say that 20 years ago child-molestation was not considered a crime? Even if that were true it does not change the fact that JW's claim to be governed by god and under his direction and have never claimed to wait for Caeser's law before acting. They've always been so proud of being able to do god's work even "underground". This video is a smoke screen. I'll be surprised if they keep it on their site after the Dateline episode airs. But maybe these guys, the WTS, are getting dumber.

    Sean

  • herbert
    herbert

    Here's a copy of a letter I've been sending to a variety of journalists; I am certain that the WTS has somehow twisted what Rodney Stark and Gail Bethea-Jackson said, or taken their words totally out of context. Couldn't get the formatting to work quite right - it started out in raw html.

    herbert

    [p]Dear XX,

    [p]The NBC show Dateline is scheduled to devote this coming Tuesday's show to child abuse within the Jehovah's Witness (JW) (or Watchtower Society) community.

    [p][a href=" http://www.msnbc.com/news/dateline_front.asp?0NI=-38&ta=y
    "]Please see the "coming up on Dateline" section[/a]

    [p]Based on your reporting of recent episodes in the Catholic Church, I thought you might be interested in how the Jehovah's Witnesses are reacting to an ever growing number of similar incidents in their church. It is quite incredible; the WTS has somehow co-opted the help of fairly prominent individuals to produce web videos, designed to mislead the media, on their organization's web site.

    [p] These videos are no more than transparent attempts to whitewash the whole thing - essentially damage control after the fact. The intransigence and stupidity of the JW leaders is incredible given what's happened with the Catholic church.

    [p]Ihe latest video can be viewed here.

    [p][a href=" http://www.jw-media.org/vnr/2122827332/717263isdn.htm
    "]WT Video Release: Progressive Understanding[/a]

    [p]One particularly ridiculous excerpt is the following:

    [p]"People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness ... and the long-term effects."[p]Some quotes supplied at the end of this email, from the WTS's own literature, put the lie to the claims made in this interview. Also, even a cursory search of the professional literature reveals that the seriousness of child sexual molestation - rape in plain words - has long been considered a serious problem with damaging effects. This video occurs alongside another by the prominent sociologist-of-religion Rodney Stark, who, in the following video also defends the JWs.

    [p][a href=" http://jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=/vnr/default.htm";]Rodney Stark Video: Education Through Publications[/a]

    [p]Certainly, WTS publications might sometimes appear to be very supportive of protecting the child, and, what they say may make some sense. That's just good PR. The basic problem, however, with the JWs is that if the abuse occurs at the hands of one of their own, their instinct, often enforced through the threat of excommunication, is to cover the matter up so as "not to bring reproach on Jehovah God's name" as they put it. Actually, that's just code for protecting the leaders.

    [p]More information on the scope of the problem of molestation in the religion can be found here:

    [p][a href=" http://www.silentlambs.org";]SilentLambs Website[/a]

    [p]The WTS has been in the news quite a bit recently; Stephen Bates of the UK newspaper, the Guardian, exposed the hypocrisy of the WTS in affiliating with the United Nations as an NGO while, at the same time, condemning both the UN and astonishingly, other religions for doing the same thing. However, JWs can be excommunicated for pointing out the hypocrisy of this.

    [p] Mr. Bates wrote an article for the Tablet last November on the UN scandal, in addition to several newspaper articles. It can be accessed here, although you may need to register (it's free).

    [p][a href=" http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00577
    "]Tablet article[/a]

    [p]Sincerely,

    [p]**************************************************

    [p] Watchtower Quotes re: Child Abuse from 18 - 20 years ago

    [p]Here are several excerpts from articles written 17 to 20 years ago. The articles are quite lengthy. But is fairly evident that the WTS knew what the experts in this field recommended.

    [p]An excerpt from twenty (20) years ago:

    [p]June 22, 1982 Awake page 10, Rape at Home
    [p]

    Incest is probably the most selfish and reprehensible kind of child abuse. It is a grotesque violation of the child's trust and dependency. It is the child's closest protector that is turning on it. And the child is a damaged victim. I have never knowingly talked to a happy, well-adjusted, unconcerned incest victim, said Dr. Suzanne Sgroi, former chairman of the Sexual Trauma Treatment Program.

    [p]Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber, director of Odyssey Institute in New York city, says: In my own practice I have the hardest time imaginable treating these children who suffer from incest, even more than the kids who are battered, abused, set on fire, and whipped because at least those children dont confuse whats being done to them with love. The parent who sexually uses a child while telling him, I love you, is raising a child who will be afraid to establish rapport, trust, and engagement with anyone else in his life, even with the therapist, because unlike the beaten child, he doesnt seek affection, he fears affection and becomes extremely isolated.

    [p]An excerpt from nineteen (19) years ago:

    [p]October 1, 1983 Watchtower page 27, Help for the Victims of Incest
    [p]

    Incestuous child abuse is sexual abuse of children by an older relative. Usually, it is by a male relativesuch as a father, stepfather, uncle or older brother. Sometimes, but much more rarely, it is by a female relative. According to the book The Silent Children, incestuous abuse can range from improper fondling to oral-genital contact to intercourse. Of course, affectionate physical contact between children and older people is proper. But when the older person finds these contacts arousing, or when he does things alone with the child that he would not do if the childs mother were present, this will likely lead to sexual abuse of the child.

    [p]FOR most of her life Rachel has been ridden with guilt, convinced of her own worthlessness, and trapped in a sense of hopeless isolation. What could so blemish the life of a British housewife and mother

    [p]A 16-year-old girl from California said: I now have a pain deep in my heart that will never go away, and it hurts, truly hurts.

    [p]An excerpt from seventeen (17) years ago

    [p]January 22, 1985 Awake pages 3-4, Child Molesting-Every Mother's Nightmare--A Widespread Problem

    [p]

    The fact is, sexual molestation of children has been going on for a long time and today it is widespread. In 1983, the head of New York Citys Advisory Task Force on Rape reported a dramatic increase in the number of young children who are victims of rape, incest, and other forms of sexual abuse. Dr. David Finkelhor of the Family Violence Research Program at the University of New Hampshire conducted a large-scale study of the subject. He found that the children of 9 percent of the parents interviewed had been sexually abused. Fifteen percent of the women and 6 percent of the men had themselves been sexually abused as children!

    [p]Exact statistics are difficult to come by. In the United States, the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect has records of 55,399 cases of children being sexually molested in one year. But these are only cases of incestuous abuse. Abuse by friends, neighbors, teachers, and so forth as well as by strangers would increase that figure to a considerable extent. And a spokesman for the Child Welfare League of America told Awake! that the figures we have are only the tip of the iceberg.

    [p]A report in the magazine Ladies Home Journal estimates: Sexual abuse of young girls is four times more common than rape of adult women. Between the ages of five and 13, one in four little girls falls prey to some form of sexual abuse by adults whether it be exhibitionism, inappropriate fondling, rape, or incest. Although young females are the most common victims, 20 to 25 percent of those attacked are little boys.

    [p]Doctors are convinced of the harmful and long-term effects of such abuse. Hence, parents wonder: Are my children at risk What steps can I take to protect them What sort of person would try to harm them[/quote]

  • ChristianObserver
    ChristianObserver

    Hello :o)

    Ms Gail Bethea-Jackson: <<I don't think, 18 or 20 years ago, we knew much of anything about pedophiles.

    But it would appear that the WTBTS did: J R Brown: Child abuse is an evil.....And over the past 10 - 15 years, we've published numerous articles and other materials...

    Ms Gail Bethea-Jackson: <<We didn't look at it . . . or it wasn't . . . people didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness, 18 or 20 years ago, and the long-term effects.<<

    But J R Brown: << When we speak of child abuse, we have to look at society as a whole. This has become a burning issue in the last 20 or 30 years. And so society in general has been, more or less, plagued with this problem.

    Ms Gail Bethea-Jackson:<<It wasn't really looked at as a criminal matter. We didn't publicize it as being an act that needed some criminal intervention, so to speak.

    J R Brown:<<[In relation to child abuse] Crime is crime. And we recognise that there are penalties for crimes committed.

    Ms Gail Bethea-Jackson:<<And as people document the work that they've done, some successes and their failures, that some of that early work did not get to the public. I mean, it was in some New England journal somewhere. But certainly it was in the process of being looked at and studied. That information was not released. We weren't taught that in school. I went to one of the most prestigious social-work schools, at that time, in the country and in all of my studying, we didn't have a course in child abuse.

    J R Brown:<<This has become a burning issue in the last 20 or 30 years,,,,And all sorts of organizations and agencies are grappling with how to best handle it (ARGH! The split infinitive!!!)

    Hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    (((((( DY ))))

    It wasn't WHAT you said, it was the total vaccuum in which you said it. It's not that I disagree with you, I couldn'y figure out why you posted what you said under the title in which you said it....

    <scratches head> it took me a while to figure out what you were referring to since the Dr BJ thread was on page 3 by then or something.

    Anyway, it could have been interpreted as a 'barb' towards watchtower critics...as you may remember, violet-anus blamed the pedophile problem on parents that needed to supervise their children better. ..And J.R.Brown and friends said "who says you can't go to the police...."

    And as far as you sayingyou knew that it was wrong "molestation" don't forget we're dealing with true-blue cult members..I'm talking about the rank and file here. Not to mention Kentucky fried chicken swing shift managing elders <gag> <choke>

    dungbeetle...of the "hoping dy keeps his fiery spirit" klass..heehee

    BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    I posted this list in the other thread on this topic. The lady says there was no body of knowledge from 18 - 20 years ago. The following is a list of books that I OWN. There are a lot more of these in libraries all over North America. Add to this list all the articles in professional magazines. That she can sit there and say she went to school and never heard of this makes me sick. No wonder social workers have a bad name

    -------
    Watchtower Spin Doctors!
    Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson tells us that we didn't know what child abuse was 18-20 years ago.
    -------

    Abusing Family Justice, B. & Justice, R. 1976 NY: Human Science Press Family violence academic

    Battered Wives Martin, D. 1976 NY: Bantam battering - academic -

    Dark Side of Families: Current Family Violence Research. Finkelhor, D., Gelles. R.J., Hotaling G.T. & Straus, M.A. (Ed.) 1983 NY: Sage
    A Child is Being Beaten: Violence Against Children Chase, N.F. 1976 NY: McGraw-Hill

    Child Abuse is Scary Parent's Anonymous 1977 Torrance, CA: Parent's Anonymous

    Child Abuse: The Developing Child Kempe, R.S. & Kempe, C.H. 1978 Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press Child/abuse - academic -

    Child Sexual Abuse: New Theory and Theory Finkelhor, D. 1984 NY: Free Press Child/Sexual/abuse - research -

    Children of Trauma: Rediscovering your Discarded Self Middleton-Moz, J. 989 Pompano Beach, FL: Health Communications self-help - survivors

    Common Secret: Sexual Abuse of Children and Adolescents Kempe, R.S. & Kempe, C.H. 1984 NY: W.H. Freeman and Co. Child Sexual abuse - academic - research -

    Conspiracy of Silence: The Trauma of Incest Butler, S. 1978 San Francisco: New Glide Child Sexual abuse - academic -

    Cry in the Night Clark, M. H. 1982 NY: Simon & Schuster

    Curriculum on Child Abuse and neglect National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect 1979 Washington, D.C: U.S. Department of Health Education and Welfare Child abuse

    Daddy's Girl: A Very Personal Memoir Allen, C.V. 1980 Toronto: Seal incest - autobiography -

    Father-Daughter Incest. Herman, J.L. 1981 Harvard University Press

    Frances Ann Speaks Out:My Father Raped Me Chetin, H. 1977 NY: New Seed Press incest - biography

    I Never Told Anyone: Writings by Women Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse Bass, E. & Thornton, L. 1983 NY: Harper & Row biography - incest

    Incest and Human Love Stein, R. 1973 Dallas: Spring Publications incest academic

    Incest: A Psychological Study of Causes and Effects ... Meiselman, K.C. 1979 San Francisco: Jossey-Bass incest - Treatment - Child Sexual abuse

    Kiss Daddy Goodnight:A Speak-out on Incest Armstrong, L. 1978 NY: Pocket incest - adults - survivors -

    Outgrowing the Pain: For and About Adults Abused as Children. Gil, E. 1983 Walnut Creek, CA: Launch Press

    Sexual Victimization of Children. de Young. M. 1982 Jefferson, NC: McFarland

    Sexually Abused Children and their Families Mrazek, P.B. & Kempe, C.H. 1981 Oxford: Pergamon theory

    Sexually Victimized Children Finkelhor, D. 1979 NY: Free Press Child Sexual abuse - research

    Silent Scream Janssen, M. 1983 Philadelphia, PA: Fortress biography - poetry - incest

    Silent Sin: Case History of Incest Woodbury, J. & Schwartz, E. 1971 NY: New American incest - biography

    Voices in the Night: Women Speaking About Incest McNaron, T.A.H. & Morgan, Y. (Eds.) 1982 Pittsburg, PA: Cleis Press incest - survivors - biography

    Who Speaks for the Children? Silverman, P. 1978 Don Mills, ON: Musson Book Co. Child abuse

    A not-so-silent lamb

    Aspire to inspire before you expire

  • DazedAndConfused
    DazedAndConfused

    dungbeetle, I know this is between you and DY, but what the...? Your explanation of the way you responded to the first post does not compute with me. I don't understand why you said it was done in a total vacuum. Was it because there was another thread about Gail? If so, I can only shake my head. How many dual or more threads do we have for the same subject? Also, if there was another thread about this...I missed it so it was good that it was brought up WITH the heading that it had or I might not have ever clicked on it.

    The only reason why I clicked on this was because it dealt with "Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson" who I totally disagreed with especially when coupled with what J.R. Brown's comments were in his little slice of fame. I totally understand why it was labeled as it was.

    dungbeetle, most of the time I see you as being very coherent and rational...but in cases like this, I feel that it is unwarranted. The attacks I mean. IMHO, I think DY should be apologised to instead of just getting the reason (excuse?) for your bad behaviour.

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Dazed:

    Thanks, but there is no apology needed here. We all have bad days and perhaps Dungbeetle was experiencing one. I too have jumped to wrong conclusions about the posts of others.

    Usually I have also enjoyed Dungbeetles posts, so maybe we will get back to normal here.

    Have a great week.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Hi Dung, Drachir, Dazed,

    I'll guarantee you that no JW spokesperson will dare to appear on Dateline tonight and have the temerity to try out this drivel as a rebuttal to the criticism ... He/she would be laughed off the screen.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    I'm sorry !!!

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    It's so kool how everyone works out thier differences around here

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