I know, and I will never stop pointing that out so long as people are using belief and faith to tell me how to live.
I salute you!
Glory of creation is still untouched!
by Pinku 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Onager
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Pinku
You ask: “If god does not give revelations to mankind how do you know the above?”
Pure history! History shows that God has not intervened in the affairs of mankind. There could have been destructions such as Jerusalem temple for which history gives human reasons!
You ask: “How do you know god doesn't use books?”
If He does use books to guide us, then NATURALLY He will not permit its corruption. Why should He give some book that cannot be kept pure, what purpose does such a book serve?
You say: “'Mother Nature' is one of the cruellest, most unforgiving!”
If Mother Nature KNOWS how to provide nutritious fruits in all varieties and tastes (which would take many generations for a man to taste all of the varieties of fruits one by one), it will have sound reasons to behave, at times, in a “cruelest and most unforgiving” manner! He teaches through nature: ‘there is a sowing before reaping.’—Galatians 6:7
You ask: how do you know as your god does not reveal anything to you?
God does not reveal anything to me. I am just an observer. Yet I have observed and experienced that if we sow good, we will reap good:
- As I have seen, those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same.
Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling-- Proverbs 26:27
- For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven-Ecclesiastes 3:1
- Every natural event has a natural cause-- Leucippus Ancient Greek Philosopher
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Caedes
Therefore an external input is needed to sustain any closed loop cycle. So, how does the Universe thrive? Here is where Materialists bring in a STRANGE logic: There is someone [a cause] behind every equipment/device, but when something is too big as universe, there requires no Cause! [In other words, insignificant things need a creator whereas big things do not need a Creator] It’s like making a fuss about an insignificant item that has been stolen, but not being bothered at all about something very valuable that was stolen.
So what about the creator for your god, who created him? And who created his creator? etc etc.
It seems your criticism can be turned straight back at you, after all why are you worried about who created the universe when that gods creator must have been even more powerful? It’s like making a fuss about an insignificant item that has been stolen, but not being bothered at all about something very valuable that was stolen.
It is either elephants all the way down or you start special pleading. So which is it?
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Twitch
A point if you will; reading peoples opinions/beliefs doesn't entail you to believe their viewpoint. It's your choice to read and take offense, to give it credit and engage. If you take offense at every belief/opinion that opposes yours, you'll never be at peace cos there'll always be another opinion. And of course this is only my opinion, take or leave it; I don't really care ;)
As for Plato, some interesting classical philosophy but much has been learned since then
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Pinku
The essence of what I posted is not about Creator [creation can be done either by the Father God, or by his children gods—as some people have written in numerous books which deal with communication with the spirit world].* But essence of what I wrote is this: “Humans have never come anywhere even closer to the majesty of things in the nature--equipments humans have so far designed are clumsy and rudimentary in comparison with the things in nature.” And if energy cannot be created nor destroyed, the question of WHO CREATED THE CREATOR (the source of all energies) doesn’t arise!
*Footnote: When asked how he could make some landmark judgments, the former Apex Court Judge of India Mr. V R Krishna Iyer (who was also the Marxist Part’s Presidential Candidate in the 80’s) gave credit to the spirits with whom he used to communicate. Very recently another High Police Official who was appointed to investigate a very high-profile murder case too gave credit to the spirit of the murdered person in helping him with vital clues that led into the arrest of the murderer. Hence communication with spirit world is not some grand-mother tale. It is an art some people can develop! You can even speak to Mr. V R. Krishna Iyer or any other dignitaries found in any country of your choice! Or read his book book.(http://www.amazon.in/Wandering-Many-Worlds-An-Autobiography/dp/8131718352)
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Twitch
lordy...
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OUTLAW
You can even speak to Mr. V R. Krishna Iyer or any other dignitaries found in any country of your choice!
Or read his book book.....Pinku
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Product Description
Description This book is an account of over thirty years of veryprominent participation by Justice V. R. Krishna Iyer as a humanrights lawyer, minister, legislator, high court judge, member, LawCommission, Supreme Court judge, and social activist and reformer.This autobiography also gives us glimpses of other facets of hislife?as a child in an obscure village in Kerala; as a student and ayoung adult; his marriage and his experiences as a devoted husband;and as a spiritual follower of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi'stranscendental meditation. In Search of Truth Sunset Reminiscences Rites of Passage We Are Seven Stirrings of the Soul My Professional Procession Sarada and I: A Divine Duo in a Human Space I Was a Prisoner Thou Shalt Not Kill Cities I Have Loved My Days as a Minister First EMS Council of Ministers: 1957?59 Mass Shramdan During the EMS Ministry Back to the Bar My Judicial Career: Beginnings Central Law Commission: A Beginning Towards Poverty Jurisprudence Seven Years in the Supreme Court Indira Gandhi and the Emergency My Contributions to the Supreme Court A Tearful Farewell Why I Accuse Post-retirement Vicissitudes More About Post-retirement Vicissitudes An American Trip that Did Not Click Answers in Spirituality: Maharshi Mahesh Yogi and His Transcendental Meditation Curiosities: My Occult Travels Justice V.R. Krishna Iyer , Retired Judge, Supreme Court of India,was born on 15th November 1915. In 1956 he became a lawyer and alegislator. In 1957 he became a Minister in the first CommunistGovernment in Kerala. He has been awarded the Padma Vibhushan bythe Indian government.
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Caedes
That is what is called special pleading.
So why should I not say that the same applies to the universe? We could just say that since energy can neither be created nor destroyed then the energy in the universe is eternal and that the question of who created the universe doesn't arise. Or is that answer wholly insufficient?
creation can be done either by the Father God, or by his children gods
What evidence do you have for that? If I claim to have a dragon in my garage would you believe me?
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M*A*S*H
Pinku thanks for attempting to actually answer my questions of you. I will state my claim right from the outset - It's my position that you have no evidence for your god and accept 'him' on faith and most of what you postulate as logic is in fact woo.
Just to go over your answers...
Originally you said...
Because man has been given the ability to become gods (to progress indefinitely) or demons (to lead lives of destruction). He never uses messengers or books, but has left the teaching to the mother Nature.
I asked how you 'know' this... you chose to answer a slightly different question than intended - how do you know man has been 'given'any ability? What is the evidence? We all know we can lead 'good' or 'bad' lives according to the prevailing morality, but how do you know that god gave this ability?
You answered my question regarding mother nature's lessons with a vague 'you reap what you sow' response. In what way does that make sense when 'mother nature' unleashes a tsunami that kills innocent children?
It is true that good things might happen to you if you act kindly towards your fellow man... but this surely is not evidence for a god? You say you have seen evidence "that if we sow good, we will reap good"; however are you saying you have not seen any evidence for the opposite? Your so called teacher is just as likely to give cancer to a good person as a bad... good people are murdered, raped, etc... It seems like you are diliberately ignoring the evidence that what you are saying is total tosh.
If god does not use books, why are you quoting scripture?
...OUTLAW