A question for the Trolley & Cosmopolitan Witnesses

by The Searcher 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • designs

    V- Your reasoning gets down to interpretive issues of Scripture. The Reformation produced a wide array of doctrinal beliefs on Soteriology (salvation doctrines) The Protestants certainly are not monolithic and unified.

    In the broader scope of Christian Soteriology you would also need to address the Church of Rome and the Eastern Orthodoxdictum - extra eccelsiam nulla salus (No Salvation Outside the Church).

  • Vanderhoven7

    D: Yes, we can't paint all groups with one brush. I spoke only of evangelicals who consistantly witness to Jesus Christ and His centrality to soteriology.

  • designs

    V- I would argue that even that point needs to be refined further to a few subsets of Evangelicals. I remember from my years as a JW being asked by various Evangelicals- Are you Saved, then Are you Born Again, then Have you received the Gifts of the Spirit. Each level looked down of the former.

    I remember one young college student telling me a JW could not say the words- Jesus is my Savior, so I told her 'I believe Jesus is my Savior', she looked shocked.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Actually, are you saved?; are you born again? tantamout to the same question. Both, from an evangelical perspective, point exclusively to Jesus Christ. Variations in evangelical soteriology never deminish the essential role of Jesus. Peace with God, righteousness, forgiveness, eternal life, it's all in the name of Jesus.

    1 Corinthians 6:20 - "For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

    Matthew 26:28 says, "For this is my blood of the new testament,
    which is shed for many for the remission of sins." The word "test- ament" is from the Greek word diatheke, which means covenant. Christ has purchased us with His blood. We have entered into a covenant with Him. The church is the bride, He is the bridegroom. We are betrothed to Him in a covenant bought with His blood. Samuel J. Stone wrote these powerful words in the hymn "The Church's One Foundation" -- "From heaven He came and sought her to be His holy bride; With His own blood He bought her, and for her life He died."

  • designs

    The point these various Evangelicals were making to me when I was a JW meant that unless you acheived level A,BorC you "weren't really Saved", especially from the latter two with needing some outward manifestation of the Gifts as real proof.

    I never heard a Catholic or Orthodox person ask such a question.

  • designs

    How is the questioned posed not a promotion of one group's elite view versus another group.

    I know the Real Jesus. I have the True Religion...and on and on it goes.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Hi DESIGNS - I agree with your point; Christians should just call themselves "Christians", rather than go off and organize themselves into sects, sub-sects, and cults.

    Since I was raised as a JW, and accepted the teachings as"truth", I feel obligated to share with fellow JW's the results of my Bible reasonings, rather than using WT literature.

    If the other denominations have an equivalent website to JW.NET, then perhaps their awakened adherents will share their own TTATT with others in their community.

  • designs

    Hi Seacher- it seems that divisions within Christianity started very early. There were disputes among the Jews who accepted Jesus as to who he actually was. With the Gentiles is got even more divisive based on all the accusations of who was a heretic of which school of doctrine.

    When modern Evangelicals say- JWs are not Christian it seems to me they aren't paying attention to history.

  • jgnat

    Well, nearly all denominations subscribe to the Nicene Creed. This is a neat way to identify those who are "Christian".


    The evangelicals add another layer of confession to Christ. For them, it's a matter of no "True Christian" will do without the confession. Highly irritating for me are those types who would seek out my spiritual status without getting to know me first. Would I be "true" enough for them? So insulting.

    Amusing are the apologists here who assume I am athiest without checking first. Simply for my audacity to point out their flawed arguments. They do more damage to God's reputation by defending the indefensible, IMO.

    The Witnesses, the Christadelphians and the Unitarian Universalists don't subscribe to the Nicene Creed so they are outliers.

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