How much of our mind is our own?

by jgnat 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Apognophos

    I'm dyin' here.

  • Pinku

    I feel it is not about coercion or brain-washing. Fault lies largely on the adherents themselves. Most of them are ruled by the thought: “I left one organization and joined JWs; now how can I retreat? How will my power of judgment will be judged by people.”

    This is what the only member in my family who is still a JW despite the bold stand the rest of family members and other witness relatives took.

  • Phizzy

    To go back to jgnats thoughts at the beginning of the Thread, I wonder why the accusation of coercion has not been levelled at the WT and similar groups with their ex-communication/bullying techniques, as these clearly go against the Declaration of Human Rights section 18/2 ? (see also the note explaining "2").

  • jgnat

    I had an erudite reply all composed...and lost it.

    Apognophos, I believe computers could achieve free will with a little more complexity, sensory input, and mobility.

    Pinku, obviously people stay for various reasons. Interesting that all but one member of your family managed to exit, for reasons of their own. I imagine the first outliers took the greater risk (fear of shunning by family members). But your remaining family member still in, has motives of his own. I suspect cognitive dissonance. He's invested too much to give up now. Very similar to the gambling addict's descent in to greater risk and indebtedness.

    Which leads me to ponder; how much free will is there in the Venus Fly Trap called Vegas? A certain percentage of the population is vulnerable, and casinos certainly have perfected ways to clean them out.

  • Oubliette

    jgnat: casinos certainly have perfected ways to clean them out

    Gambling is a tax on people that are bad at math and statistics.

    sparky1, love the Viktor Frankl quotes. Thanks! Have you read his book, Man's Search for Meaning? I read it many years ago. It's a compelling read.

  • jgnat

    Found today, Ziimbardo on evil and heroism; how easily we are manipulated.

    And, rare footage of Frankl:

  • jgnat

    Hitchbot, the hitch-hiking robot:

    I would say I made the decision not to go to work today, but I have found it most distressing to find out how many decisions I make can be influenced by outside forces I am barely aware of.

  • Oubliette

    jgnat, I'd seen that Zimbardo talk before. He is a compelling speaker.

    Hadn't seen the Frankl talk. Thanks for sharing!

  • jgnat

    Here's a talk about traffic jams where citizens could not explain their change in behavior. Even though the change was observable, measurable.

  • sparky1

    Oubliette-Yes I have read "Mans Search for Meaning". In fact I have read most of Viktor E. Frankls works including his autobiography. I have many tapes of his talks and VCR tapes of some of his lectures. He was a brilliant man albeit a product of his time. Sometimes he is paternalistic and authoritarian in his outlook but I think that it is because he was raised in a very stratified and structured society. He was a great humanitarian and a very loving human being. My own personal outlook on life is a combination of Frankls' ideology and Thomas Szaszs' Libertarian outlook. I walk the middle ground between the two.

    jgnat-Thanks for posting the video of Viktor E. Frankl. More people need to be exposed to his balanced humanitarian outlook on life. He certainly was nobodys fool.

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