GOVERNING BODY: Thanks for nothing, you rat bastards!

by Terry 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Earnest

    Magnum, I agree with most of what you say except that I have always understood "accurate knowledge" of the truth or the Bible or whatever to be in contrast to a superficial or incomplete knowledge of the same. In 1Timothy 2:4 Paul is saying more than that it is God's will people should know (gnosis) the truth. He is saying, as you expressed it, that they should have a full or complete or thorough or intimate knowledge of truth.

    In Thayer's Greek Lexicon it describes epignosis as "precise and correct knowledge" which is scarcely different to "accurate knowledge".

    The word is found at Romans 1:28; 3:10; 10:2; Ephesians 1:17; 4:13; Phillipians 1:9; Colossians 1:9, 10; 2:2; 3:10; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Timothy 2:25; 3:7; Titus 1:1; Philemon 6; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 1:2, 3, 8; 2:20.

    It may be helpful to review how it is used in these scriptures. It is used in the LXX as well.

    In my opinion when epignosis is used of God and Christ then "intimate knowledge" would probably be more appropriate, but when used of something abstract, like truth, "accurate knowledge" is true to the sense of the word.

  • Magnum

    Earnest, I am certainly no expert and need to do more research. Thanks for the list of verses. It seems that common sense would help to determine the meaning when examining them (the verses). Of course, I don't know since I haven't examined them yet. I agree with you that some non-JWs (such as Thayer) say that epignosis means "precise and correct knowledge", and I agree also that that definition is the same as "accurate knowledge".

    My best guess would be that the term has different shades of meaning and one would have to be intimately familiar with Koine Greek to know the precise meaning intended. I stilll tend to agree with Sparky1, though; I don't see how it could make sense to refer to accurate knowledge of the truth since there is no such thing as an innacurate knowledge of the truth. There could be innacurate knowledge of a subject - a subject which one thinks to be the truth, but not inaccurate knowledge of the truth. One either knows the truth or he doesn't; he can't have inaccurate knowledge of it or it wouldn't be the truth. It makes perfect sense, however, to refer to coming to a deeper knowledge or more intimate knowledge of the truth or a truth.

    I apprreciate your thoughts and intend to give the subject more scrutiny in the future. I was learning Koine Greek at one time, but stopped. I want to start back again. My learning of Greek, however, was more grammatical than semantical. In other words, I was learning more about tense, case, etc. than I was the meanings of different words and passages because that has always been my main interest (even in English).

  • Heaven

    As a teenager I saw how this religion and really, all the others, use the Bible for their own agenda.

    You can do immeasurable good... and immeasurable harm with this book. Knowing that it comes from a time in human history where they hadn't the slightest idea of what was really going on, it amazes me how people today get suckered into it. But as children, we are maneouvered through this book. We are told what things 'really' mean and the religious authorities waffle back and forth between scriptures being literal and figurative. Leaves one rather woozie and nauseated. I just backed slowly away as I grew up and never went back.

    P.S. I've always liked the term 'rat bastard'.

  • Vidiot

    Terry - "Aren't they sneaky?"

    They barely even try to be sneaky these days.

  • Terry

    My number one all-time example of amateur Bible research is the fallacy of the MEANING of a word.

    In the Bible, a word is used whatever which-way by the writer. Then, the amateur rips the word out of context and makes the definition an absolute.

    What does the word "day" mean in the Bible?

    Right away we are in trouble. Sometimes (when?) a day is as a thousand years with Jehovah.

    Yeah? Then, in that context, how long does that make a year?

    Remember the phrase, "A day for a year, a day for a year"?

    Now we have real problem if we simply rip away the context of those two scriptures and place them side by side.


    A day is as a thousand years.

    A day for a year, a day for a year.


    Try to come up with "meaning" now!

    Words in the Bible are like rubber bands.

    Stretch them until they snap.

  • Onager

    "The light gets brighter" makes my blood boil!!

    THIS is light getting brighter

    1. My name is Matt

    2. My name is Matthew Richard

    3. My name is Matthew Richard Hollands

    SEE? None of the later statements invalidate the previous statements. They're ALL true but statement 3 is brighter light than statement 1!

    And then when they talk about a sailing ship tacking... ARGH! Just: ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!

  • cha ching
    cha ching

    Perfect illustration Onager:

    I have been looking for an illustration like that....

  • Terry

    Long, long ago, a pastor named C.T. Russell said critically about New Light (which is an Adventist apologetic device):

    "If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now: But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light," but adds to it. If you were lighting up a building containing seven gas jets you would not extinguish one every time you lighted another, but would add one light to another and they would be in harmony and thus give increase of light: So is it with the light of truth; the true increase is by adding to, not by substituting one for another."

  • JWCart
    Good material needs a bump up!
  • baldeagle
    The WTS leaders are truly reprehensible!

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