AMATEURS using BAD METHODS: what possible expertise does the GB possess?

by Terry 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    Let's start with a very basic common sense question.

    If you needed surgery would you go to a graduate of medical school who had been practicing for awhile,

    or would you go to an amateur who told you God would be telling him how to peform surgery?

    Don't laugh.

    It is a serious question!

    ___________________

    Now, before you answer, what if you had performed due diligence first and examined the track record of these prospective surgeons first?

    The amateur "doctor" had made several important diagnostic statements (under the "authority of God) and had been dead wrong.

    The other doctor had a 66 per cent accuracy, just for the sake of argument.

    Now, which one would you choose to perform your surgery?

    Why?

    ___________________

    The Presidents of the Watchtower Society, from the beginning, have been self-taught amateurs.

    They have made thousands of claims. Among those many claims, they have butted heads against expert scholars and

    contradicted the findings of those men.

    ON WHAT BASIS?

    Aren't these questions worth asking before turning our trust and loyalty over to them as proficient leaders who

    are going to compel us to believe everything they say?

    Is there a SANE reason why anybody should place their life in the hands of amateurs with a bad track record?

    _____________________

    EIGHT MILLION sincere, devout human beings are spending the majority of their time following the dictates of amateurs.

    Doesn't that boggle your mind?

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Doesn't that boggle your mind?

    Yes it does, but once its realized that most of general public are not well scholared in Bible theology and the WTS markets its

    literature by announcing god's judgment day is soon with an earthly paradise to follow these postulations sound

    so emotionally appealing that most scrutiny upon that information seems to vanish.

    The WTS is very cunning to extract specific scriptures to support their purposed doctrines, to further the believability toward the readers.

    Add in the basic outward belief in the bible that the public has in itself and you have a recipe to create followers.

    .

    What it actually comes down to is what a person wants to print and publish, even if that person internally perceives himself a bible scholar

    themselves but they are not.

    In 1919 the leader of the WTS. (J Rutherford) said that god has chosen his religious organization alone exclusively .

    As the Church Lady would say .. " How Convenient "

    The entire WTS organization was built up on amateur bible theology by a clothing salesman and then his accomplice Lawyer.

    Neither were academically trained in biblical theology.

    ...... maybe they didn't have to be !

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    "what possible expertise does the GB possess?"

    They are experts at deceiving the biblically ignorant with fallacious reasoning, misapplied scriptures, twisted scripture interpretations and psychological manipulation.

    They prey on people who are biblically illiterate. Ever notice how the majority of JW converts formerly belonged to churches that had weak bible study programs? You rarely find JWs converting from churches that study the bible deeply.

    When you're biblically ignorant its easy for Watchtower spin scriptures and deceive you. This can be seen in how JWs always find particular Watchtower teachings so logical and so biblical ... yet those very same teachings are later discarded or "corrected" with a new understanding supported by new logic and new scriptures. How is it that the JWs couldn't see the teaching was wrong all along? This proves that JWs are easily deceived by Watchtower.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    What Island Man said!

  • Terry
    Terry

    I think, upon further reflection, what the WTS does best is show a little "cleavage" by revealing titbits about nominal Christianity.

    By exposing the historicity of "pagan" influences it is easy to impress otherwise clueless Christians to the flaws in their church.

    HOWEVER . . .

    What the unwary do not suspect is the same expose' is quite applicable (in different aspects) for Watchtower weaknesses as well.

    Just because mainstream Christianity gets A, B, and C wrong in no way guarantees the WTS gets X, Y, and Z right!

    The apple is full of worms.

    ___________________-

    Sidebar

    ____________________

    I had a very disconcerting conversation with a JW woman yesterday. I won't go into details at the moment.

    Suffice to say, no matter how many things I exposed about the GB and the false prophecies, she took the coward's

    way out; i.e. she "trusted Jehovah and told me I need to go to Jehovah in prayer.

    From this I concluded the FACTS make no difference to people who are EMOTIONALLY involved.

    She is vested by many years in a society where all her "friends" and family reside.

    By repudiating the religion, she would--in effect--cut her own throat.

    That is a lot to ask of a person, isn't it?

    Intellectual honesty is cold comfort compared to "friends" and family.

  • M*A*S*H
    M*A*S*H

    I can recommend my toothyoligist, he's much cheaper than the dentist I used to see.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The entailing emotional entrapment gets further fortified by the WTS. insistence that looking outside of their teachings are wrong or evil inspired.

    Potentially jeopardizing their salvation and appeasement with god. This is where fear is used extensively to mentally control people

    toward their operative means.

    Any outside biblical interpretations from outside the organization are influenced by Satan and can lead one away from god's righteous teachings

    offered by the chosen WTS.

    .

    Questioning the WTS. is paramount to questioning god himself.

  • Terry
    Terry

    On Bart Ehrman's blog (of which I am a Member) he tells this incident which I think is illustrative of

    how the most obvious points can be completely overlooked.

    ____________________________

    "

    A couple of years ago, I was teaching my New Testament class for undergraduates. We had spent several weeks talking about the historical problems posed by the Gospels – how they were not written by eyewitnesses or by anyone claiming to be eyewitnesses, but by later authors living decades after the events they narrate; these are unknown authors living in different countries speaking a different language from Jesus, writing accounts that they had heard, as these had circulated for all those years in the oral tradition. We had talked about numerous discrepancies in the Gospels, in minor details, in details of things that really matter, in big points, and in their overall portrayals of Jesus.

    On the basis of this information, we began to reconstruct what we could say about what the historical Jesus actually said and did, on the basis of the various criteria that historians have devised and that, I insisted, we have to use rigorously. After about a week on this topic, I gave a lecture in which, among other things, I indicated that I did not think, using these criteria, that Jesus ever spoke about himself as a divine being, God on earth.

    After the lecture an earnest looking student came up to me and said she couldn’t agree with me about that. When I asked her why, she said that it was because of the things that Jesus says about himself, for example in John 10:30 “I and the Father are one,” and John 8:58, “Before Abraham was I am.”

    I had trouble for a minute understanding what she was saying, and then I realized what it all meant. And so I asked her how she knew that Jesus really said these things. It was then her turn to look puzzled. She said, that it was written right *there*, in the New Testament. I replied that the whole point of what we had been doing for the past few weeks was to show that a number of the stories about Jesus’ words and deeds in the NT were not historical but were later legendary additions to the stories about him, and that one had to apply historical criteria to the sources in order to know what sayings of Jesus actually went back to him. (I was doing my best to be gentle but to explain what I thought we had been talking about for weeks.)

    She looked confused and said “But if you don’t accept *these* sayings, then you’d have to question *all* the sayings!” She took this to be a refutation of my position. But I responded, “Yes, that’s exactly right.” She suddenly had a far-off look in her eyes and then, after a few seconds, it looked like a light bulb finally came on. “Oh,” she said.

    Yes indeed. Just because an ancient source *says* something doesn’t make it historically accurate. You have to examine each and every source critically. You have to consider the biases of the sources. You have to check what a source says against what you know on other grounds to be historically right. Your “other grounds” have to be rooted in a critical evaluation of the *other* sources that you use to establish those grounds. Just because a source says something, doesn’t make it so. That’s true of the Talmud, of Tacitus, of Livy, of the Gospel of John, of Paul, of Dio Cassius, of Thucydides, of all ancient sources. Including Josephus. That makes history much harder than any of us would like. What we would *like* to do is to show what really happened in the past simply by pointing to a source and saying “See, it says so!” But the question is not only what the source says, but also whether it is probably right – based on everything else we know.

    The student I was talking with would have probably not had a problem with challenging what Tacitus, Thucydides, or the Talmud had to say (to pick on Roman, Greek, and Jewish sources); she did, however, have a problem with challenging what the Gospel of John had to say. Sometimes people are selectively critical, approving sources that say what they want them to say and challenging them otherwise. But history cannot be done prejudicially. All sources need to be critically examined."

    ____________________________

    Amateurs take the written word unskeptically for an "as is" and regard it as a "given" and proceed to build into that "given" layers and layers

    of parsed interpretations. (Eisegesis, it is called, technically speaking.)

    William Miller did this as a lay preacher. He took his Bible and commentaries and his prayers and amateur "skillset" and launched

    an undying obsession in Adventists. That obesssion started a fire that burnt the conscience of Charles Russell, Judge Rutherford and millions of others.

    There is a lesson to learn, all ye amateurs out there!!

  • fiddler
    fiddler

    Terry, you wrote:

    "I had a very disconcerting conversation with a JW woman yesterday. I won't go into details at the moment.

    Suffice to say, no matter how many things I exposed about the GB and the false prophecies, she took the coward's

    way out; i.e. she "trusted Jehovah and told me I need to go to Jehovah in prayer.

    From this I concluded the FACTS make no difference to people who are EMOTIONALLY involved.

    She is vested by many years in a society where all her "friends" and family reside.

    By repudiating the religion, she would--in effect--cut her own throat.

    That is a lot to ask of a person, isn't it?

    Intellectual honesty is cold comfort compared to "friends" and family."

    i just was listening to an audio book this morning, 'Reading Lolita In Tehran' by Azar Nafisi, and there was a comment made about one of her students that for her to let go of her faith and the wearing of the veil which was very much a part of that faith was tantamount to giving up her life...committing suicide. It didn't matter how uncomfortable the rules were or any arguments that would show the faith to be lacking. It, the veil, everything was threaded through the entire fabric of her life.

    I have for a long time noticed the parallels of fundamental Islam and fundamental Christianity and in fact, those similarities were part of my waking up but in the very beginning of my journey out I too had the feeling that I would be, at the very least, committing spiritual suicide at the time. I had come to the 'jumping off place' and chose to jump not caring anymore about living. I just knew I didn't want to live that life which had been all I'd ever known.

    The GB ARE amateurs using bad methods but they weave those bad methods through the very fabric of ones being so that it is like almost killing oneself to get cut loose. It's almost like they attach their bad logic to vital organs (the borg really does come to mind) and so it is literally very painful to get free.

    I think at least for me it meant really Facing death.

    Of course, like the Indiana Jones movie where he had to take the 'leap of faith', it wasn't death. There was a path. The student in Azar's book did finally take that leap and all I can hope is that it gets so uncomfortable to live in JW land that are loved ones also take the leap of faith.

    I really appreciate your research and well thought out post, Terry. Thank you!

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The WTS tactics of drawing interest to their organization were sufficient enough to alure and maintain a small segment of the population by exploiting people's ignorance

    of the bible's actual writings. Throw in elements of fear to capture people's emotions and you create a following.

    The apparent amateur bible theology which the WTS. carried itself since its inception wasn't really detrimental to the organizations' continuing growth,

    most likely due to the literature proliferation the WTS. pursues by its engaged members.

    The proclamation that its Jehovah's will and purpose to go door to door gets constantly pushed into people's minds that the believably of that statement

    is held as something solemnly true, when in fact its the Watchtower's intensional will and purpose.

    .

    The Gospel of the bible is not the Gospel of which the Watchtower teaches or promotes or would even have Jehovah's guiding direction.

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