Child with brain tumour taken from UK hospital by JW parents (page 6)

snare&racket

Been reading the journals this morning concerning proton therapy and this young boy's cancer. There is much evidence to say the therapy can reduce risks of secondary tumors, though it is not without risk for secondary tumours itself.

Just thought I would add one paper where they suggest to seek the proton therapy if available.

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02841860500218819

I was unable to see any papers where the advantages are quantified into statistics, perhaps because proton therapy is so new and little research has been done. Seems to be a long trial with prostate ca under way currently.

Thoughts with them all, wish the little boy well.

steve2

Perhaps it is unfair to frame this as a JW issue when it is more about parents feeling strongly enough about alternatives to have removed their child from hospital care.

As understandable as it is, it sets an unfortunate precedent: Unlawfully removing your child from care to try to force the issue through social media of expensive but under-resourced alternative interventions - and putting your child's immediate health in danger. It is a shame that the publicized focus on alternatives downplays the dangers of the alternative treatment.

It would be a shame if the parents make their point only to have further seriously compromised their child's health.

I can see the organization being caught between a rock and a hard place over the parents' "stand".

rebel8

Watching that video was disturbing. While it is nice to see his passion for his child, it seems so misplaced in the face of evidence-based medicine.

Seeing the poor child with no muscle control was sad. Sometimes the dad would place his hand over the child's face, oddly. And the place he chose to rest his right hand in the beginning of the video...I know those are minor points of course, but they just added a whole layer of ick for me.

Even if this is not a blood issue, let's not dismiss the fact that dubs inherit hundreds of years of brainwashing against science and medicine, placing individual opinions over tested evidence. Such jw behavior nearly killed me a few times as well when I was a kid.

This may not be directly taught as much today, but the paranoia about doctors and arrogance that the common man knows more remains to this day. For this reason, we see many vitamin peddlers, reflexologists, iridologists, etc. in the Borganization, thriving while the sheep substitute woo for medical care.

wts bears some responsibility for this. They never retracted any of these teachings formally. Also, they know the flock relies on them for advice on medical matters, and they have an extremely permissive attitude towards woo. The HLC continues to promote the anti-medical philosophy.

…if ten thousand doctors swore on ten thousand Bibles that aluminum ware is harmless to human beings, I would not believe them… – The Golden Age 07/25/1928 p. 695

More quotes here.

steve2

Rebel8, you have perfectly captured my observations and reactions. In making the video he came across as worryingly "territorial", as if he were saying, "the boy is my son and I'll decide what's best for him" and in so doing, exposes his very sick son to the intensity of his special pleading and some very absent-minded intrusive gestures as he cradles his son. No one will deny the father's sincerity and need to be heard. But his actions reflect someone who has lost all sense of reasonable proportion, fuelled by a religious organization that often speaks dismissively of medical practitioners and the difficult decisinos they are often forced to make.

bemused

It's being reported today that the family are looking to sell a house in Spain to fund treatment in the Czech Republic. That's fine but what I can't understand is why the father couldn't go off and do that himself - why on earth would you subject a desperately ill child to a gruelling journey with no access to skilled medical care?

konceptual99

bemused, I think the answer to that is in the father's video. It seems relations between the hospital and the parents were deteriorating and the parents had a concern that Ashya would be made a ward of court. They removed him to prevent that possibility from happening. What will happen now of course is another question.

rebel8

They are showing what appears to be hospital surveillance video of the dad leaving the hospital with the child, which makes me wonder if he snuck out. If there was a court order then it would seem he was violating that order. (Here's a somewhat similar situation.)

exposes his very sick son to the intensity of his special pleading and some very absent-minded intrusive gestures ... his actions reflect someone who has lost all sense of reasonable proportion

Exactly. Obviously one objective was to show the child is ok, but he should have carried on his 2nd objective (developing support for his acts) without the child in earshot. He talks about how sick the kid is. Does the kid need to hear how grave his condition is? Then he talks about stuff no 5-year-old could possibly cope with--the police looking for his dad.

It was pretty horrible he kept the child in the room for that very adult discussion, but of course he learns no boundaries on that matter from his Mother org.

Listener

Maybe the blood issue does play a big part in this. Especially in the area of strained relationships and the so called threat that the hospital would get orders to take charge.

The little boy underwent surgery approximately 10 days before he was taken away. It is 99% likely that the parents told the hospital that under no circumstances would they permit a blood transfusion if it became necessary, pretty much standard procedure for a JW. The hospital would have told the parents that they would not hesitate to get a court order if it was necessary. This is going to cause a strained relationship because the hospital has a duty of care that they know they would have to take certain action if needed.

The claim by the father that the hospital had already 'threatened' to have their authority taken away is more than likely but it may not have been in relation to seeking alternative treatment but rather regarding the blood issue.

News reports say that the hospital were willing for them to get a second opinion and that they would also support his endeavours to seek alternative treatment elsewhere.

Band on the Run

Silly me. I was in a group with a Witness this year. She was African-American. I did not believe her at first b/c she said church, her hair was coiffed beauitfully, her nails were gel, etc. She wore clothes that were form-fitting. It was hard to look at her and hear Witness junk. She bragged about her family not using Western meds. She never said "Witnesses don't take medicine." It was always her family.....I finally told her it was a cult if it were the Witnesses then she was so heated I knew she was a Witness. The elders must be after her all the time. I thought she was a liberal Baptist.

She bragged about never taking Western meds. I recall Western medicine was never praised. Better to die. My family took Western meds. I don't run into people who won't take Western meds. I do run into people who truly believe they know more than MD from casual Internet research. I've had people with no high school degree scream at me about law. She became very ill and decided to try western meds which helped her immensely. The elders gave her a rouough time. I recall aspirin being passed around during field service.

You know what the Witnesses are saying about the child. Go out in field service! I would want my child to die at home. Also, I am only alive today b/c I had family support and a legal income. I had to research on my own, knowing that I could not understand the context, travel all over, play politics with doctors. My education was essential. I only had hope and choice b/c of a good income. We said this about Steve McQueen. No one understood how such a mind with such connections could believe in laeterile. Well, your attitude changes when it is you.

defender of truth

Julian Wooster, Portsmouth City Council's director for children's services, said: "At the request of Southampton Hospital the council obtained a temporary wardship order on Friday, only to direct that Ashya King be presented for medical treatment"
The BBC's legal affairs correspondent Clive Coleman said wardship means major decisions relating to the child must be approved by the court.
The order relating to Ashya will be reviewed on Wednesday."

...
Nick Triggle, BBC Health Correspondent
"It is perfectly possible to challenge medical advice...
If the person with parental responsibility refuses treatment and doctors believe that decision could lead to death or severe permanent injury an application can be made to the court of protection to overrule them.

When it comes to wanting treatment that is not being offered, it is less clear cut.
Patients do not have an automatic right to a second opinion although most hospitals will give them one.
Many also have ethical committees - or similar groups - that will consider individual cases when treatment options are disputed. Beyond that patients can - and have in the past - applied for a judicial review."
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-england-29009883

Child with brain tumour taken from UK hospital by JW parents

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