First post

by BenRichards 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • BenRichards
    BenRichards

    I've been lurking here off and on for a few years, figured I would introduce myself and share the Clif Notes version of my story.

    I'm in my late 30's and was born in. Mom was a JW, dad wasn't. Got baptized in my teens and started dating my eventual wife. Her family was heavily involved: her dad was the PO, she had an aunt & uncle at Bethel, and lots of other aunts and uncles in our cong and neighboring congs that were MS's or elders. My heart was never too deeply into the religion and I never progressed past publisher. I didn't necessarily have doubts, I simply didn't want to go to meetings or out in service. Religion - any religion - just wasn't really my thing. I'd rather sleep in on weekends or find something else to do with my time. But I played along. Was in a congregation that had tons of people our age so we had a lot of friends. Lots of trips, weekend cookouts, that sort of thing. Life was generally fine.

    Then about 6 years I was transferred to another state for work. We never really fit into our new congregation. It's in rural Ohio and the congregation is generally older, very few people our age. So we became less and less regular to the point where for 2 years we only went to the Memorial, and this year we didn't even go to that. My wife and I didn't really discuss it or make a conscience choice to stop going, it just sort of happened. We have great neighbors that we spend a lot of time with, we both have friends through work that we travel for leisure with, etc. Basically we're enjoying our "worldly" friends and have mostly fallen out of touch with our childhood witness friends, except for 1 or 2 close friends.

    I recently stumbled across the CoC book, which I read. It made me sick to my stomach that I had been apart of this organization for so long. I mentioned it my wife, not exactly sure how she would react (sure, we haven't been regular for a long time, but she comes from a strong witness family and was even a full time pioneer herself for several year after we got married). She was very interested and asked for the book, and now she has read it and feels the same way I do. I also started reading Carl Jonsson's stuff and feel strongly that the 607 belief is absurd.

    I'm not really sure where I go from here. For the most part I think I continue doing what I've been doing. I'm not closely associated with the local congregation and as I've said, we don't go meetings. But my mom, sister, and close friends still occassionally pester me to go to meetings. Especially my mom. She's always telling me when the CO is town, when the assemblies are, the Memorial, etc. When she asks why I don't go, I honestly don't have a good answer other than "I don't want to." But now I do have a good answer and I want to tell her. And my sister. So I'm trying to decide, the next time my mom brings it up, do I tell her that I've learned the TTATT and neither my wife nor I want anything to do with JW's again? I do think there's a fighting chance that my mom could react positively and with an open mind, and it's entirely possible that she'll see TTATT too. My dad passed away awhile back and she looks up to me for my opinion on things so I think she would hear me out. But, maybe she won't. Telling her could spawn a series of events that leads to sheperding calls would which undoubtedly lead to DF for apostasy because I wouldn't hide my feelings. And honestly I don't think I'd care if I got DF'd. Part of me wants it to be widely known that I've learned the TTATT and don't want to be associated with the JW's anymore.

    So anyway, that's my story. It's nice to have somewhere to vent like this.

  • Rufus T. Firefly
    Rufus T. Firefly

    Excellent first post, Ben! You're going to have to make your own decisions about if and when and how much to tell your mother. Personally, I've learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves. Sometimes, the less said, the greater the effect. Not going to the Memorial says a lot by itself. "Because I don't want to" seems to me to be the perfect response at this point. At least you know that you are not alone. I feel confident in saying there are more of us (ex-JWs) than there are of them. (This forum represents only the tip of the iceberg!) Remember that you never have to testify against yourself regardless of what questions anyone may ask you. I assume you are using an alias, so use this forum as the place to vent. Welcome!

  • Listener
    Listener

    Welcome Ben Richards. It is a big decision to make because of the risk of losing JW friends and family but it is understandable that you want them to know TTATT. It sounds like you've done well with just fading.

  • kairos
    kairos

    Perfectly executed fade.

    Well done.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Welcome BenRichards, As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The same applies to JWs. I'm glad that your wife feels the same as you and has read CoC.

    If you want to help your other JW family and friends, have you thought about doing the following?

    • Read information by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his FREE videos on his website.
    • Only ask your JW family and friends simple questions. Watch their body language. Ask them how they feel. Let them know that you love them unconditionally and will not judge them. Let them be the first ones to express their doubts first. Encourage them to independently research their doubts - the owe it themselves! Empower their authentic personas to overpower their cult personas.
    • Learn how to ask questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite wrote about in the thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed.
    • Learn how to overcome thought-stopping platitudes that your JW family and friends use.
    • Encourage your JW family and friends to become involved in non-WTBTS, time-consuming activities/hobbies where they are more likely to make new non-JW friends.
    • Encourage your JW family and friends to use the internet to search the internet for cheaper travel and hotel accomodations. Eventually they may use the internet to search for WTBTS information. You could suggest to them to Google to search jw.org for information with the hope that they may read links to non-JW.org webpages.
    • Research the WTBTS by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com and www.watchtowerdocuments.com. It will help you to know what words to suggest that your family use when doing their own research.
    • If studying the Bible with your JW family and friends does not offend you, study the Bible with them and show them what Jesus Christ thought about the Pharisees and Sadducees using Steve Hassan's BITE Model. Let them draw the comparison to the WTBTS on their own. Have you read MT 23?

    I hope that you continue to post on JWN to vent your feelings so that your JW family and friends do not become suspicious of your feelings.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • kneehighmiah
    kneehighmiah

    Welcome. I'm in ohio also. its really none of their business why you don't want to go to meetings. If you tell them about COC be prepared for them to shun. Maybe you can say that there are some things you're not sure about, and you need some time to see How things work out.

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    Welcome to the site Ben! Thanks for sharing your story. It's good to hear that you and your spouse came out of the orginazation together. I feel for a lot of people on this site who can't speak honestly to their spouse for fear of being outed.

    As for your mom, if you really want to be able to reach here I wouldn't recomend just comming out and telling her everything you learned. The WTBTS is pretty good at hardening people against so called apostacy. You have to be away for a little while to gain perspective. I would recomend assuming the Null Hypothesis when speaking to her (not convinced one way of the other about the JWs) and keep the burden of proof on her.

    If she asks, "Why did you stop going to the meetings?" You can always say something along the lines of "To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure that I have good reasons anymore for believing the things I used to believe."

    If she asks why you feel that way - you can follow up with a question of your choice.

    My favorites are:

    "How do we know the Governing Body is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?"

    Or, "If sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve and death is the price of sin, then why do animals suffer and die?"

    Or, "If man cannot rule over man and all badness in the world is being allowed right now to vindicate Jehovah's soverignty, then why did God interfere in the past with things like the flood, and the tower of babel, and all the biblical wars?"

    Asking these sorts of questions is a good method to get the person to actually think instead of getting defensive. Inclusive questions are good too. When given an anwer you don't buy you can always say "Yeah, but how do we know that's true?" or, "How could anyone really know that?" or "I understand that's what you believe, but is it actually true?"

    If asked a direct question its usually best to either say "You know, I really don't know." or, "I'm not sure anyone could know that."

    Just do your best to keep the burden of proof on her. She's the one who thinks she has all the answers - not you. Its a good method to test the waters and if a few of these conversations go well then it might be good to start bringing up some of the things that you have learned. But I definitely wouldn't recomend an all out assualt on first conversation.

    Hope that helps :)

  • happy@last
    happy@last

    Welcome, it sounds as though you have a great situation already. I'd be concerned you would lose the good relationship you have with your mum if you mentioned CoC straight off. You were very lucky with your wife's reaction.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Welcome Ben!

    What Rufus T. Firefly said: "Personally, I've learned that people only pay attention to what they discover for themselves."

    Over the years, others too have observed, that simple well crafted questions work best.

    Telling others what to believe is a big no-no, most especially those who have not yet figured out they are trapped in a cult. It seems there is no point in ruining perfectly good relationships in this way.

    Greetings

    Fernando

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Welcome !

    I was very much like yourself when first I woke up, and read COC etc. I really tried to wake my JW family up, no joy.

    At that time I felt I really wanted to cut my ties to the JW Scam and would probably DA if not DF'd first. Fortunately my JW family did not snitch on me to the Elders and bring about a DFing or whatever, because as time went on I decided I would much rather not be forcibly cut off from my family by the W.T

    As time went by the WT/JW thing faded in to being insignificant, apart from my posting on here, but I saw, and still see, no need for me to change my "faded" satus. I owe them nothing, they have no hold on me. And as merely an inactive/non-attender I can speak to any of my family, and maybe wake some of the younger ones up in the future.

    There is no hurry, carry on as you are, eventually, at any time in the future, you can DA if you must, but if you do it now, there is no going back.

    Good luck ! may you and your wife enjoy your free life to the full !

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