Athiests: Do you ever wonder... what if?

toweragent

I'll start by saying, I'm a ministerial servant who is trapped in the religion. My wife is hardcore...but I've slowly been getting her to lighten up, so I'll take it! All my friends and family are JW's, and I am employed by a JW (who is actually a GREAT boss). I literally don't know ANYONE outside of the religion.

I'm at such a crossroads... I don't know if God exists or not. Am I atheist, agnostic, or a believer? I don't know.

God is not the author of confusion...but like Dan Barker says, 'Can you think of a single book that has brought about more confusion than the bible?'

And that's true! I can teach and PROVE, from the Bible, that the JW doctrine is true. I can also take that SAME book and PROVE that it is wrong. I can use the Bible to both PROVE and DISPROVE the trinity. etc...

But then I hear comments like: "Ignore the bible, only listen to the words of Jesus." And I think that is awesome. There's not too much of what Jesus said that makes me uncomfortable. He remained silent on some of the biggest issued being pushed by religion: gay rights, abortion, etc.

So, I'm confused and that's where I'm at right now. But here's the main point of my post:

For those of you who are now athiest: Do you ever look back and wonder "what if"? What if the god of the bible is real? What if there is a creator who is not the god of the bible?

I would like to free myself from religion...but it leaves such an empty void for me. You mean to tell me that my time with my super amazing and awesome wife (albiet hardcore) is limited? No paradise earth? No heaven? No afterlife? Did you have to get over this fact or was it pretty easy for you?

Thank you for your insight!

NOTE: Just to be clear, I'm not asking what I should do...I know that's different for everybody. I'm just curious to see if the things I worry about during MY transition are normal or not.

Also, please, I am at a crossroads and I'm not commited 100% to theism or athiesm. Please do not derail the topic and tell me why I should or shouldn't beleive. PM me if you would like. But I really don't want to see the topic fall into a flame war.

Thank you everybody!

MadGiant

"For those of you who are now athiest: Do you ever look back and wonder "what if"? What if the god of the bible is real? What if there is a creator who is not the god of the bible?" -

No, their is no evidence whatsoever to support a deity, yhwh, yeshua, thor, hercules, changó.

"Also, please, I am at a crossroads and I'm not commited 100% to theism or athiesm. Please do not derail the topic and tell me why I should or shouldn't beleive. PM me if you would like. But I really don't want to see the topic fall into a flame war." -

I am an atheist, anti-theist, not by choice. The evidence stirred me to that direction. No one can/should make decisions for you, unless you let them. Why don't you do some research first? Read a couple of books, read form apologists, opposers, critics (neutral sources) and draw your own conclusions.

Respectfully
Ismael

OneEyedJoe

I've personally come to the conclusion that there's absolutely no conclusive evidence for the existance of any god or gods. There's plenty of evidence that the universe, matter, and life itself could (and very likely did) come about independently as emergent properties of a system ruled by fairly simple physical laws. In short, if god created everything, he must've intentionally created the universe in such a way as to completely hide his involvement. If such a god exists, he'd certainly be kinda a dick if he was going to start punishing people for not believing in him based on a book written thousands of years ago by a backwards tribal nomadic nation.

Yes, the realization that you're not going to have a perfect life in the future is kinda a bummer. But wouldn't you rather realize it and act accordingly, than live your life just waiting for the next life, only to find that there's nothing there? If I'm lucky, I'll have 70-80 years (maybe well beyond that given the rate at which medicine is advancing) to live, love, have fun, and see good for my hard work. That's not a bad deal, considering I did nothing to earn it.

If the god of the bible does somehow happen to exist, then I fully expect to be rewarded exactly the same as the most faithful christian. If an omniscient, omni-benevolent god that practices perfect justice, and can read the hearts of men exists, then he knows full well that I arrived at my conclusions though pure intentions. I sought only truth, and was ready to believe whatever I found, and act accordingly. It's not by some selfish desire to sleep in on sundays that I found myself to be athiest. If I, using all my supposedly god-given powers of reason, couldn't come to the conclusion that god exists, then I can't imagine how he could hold me accountable for his failing to give me whatever I needed to believe in him. Any god that wants to punish me for being an athiest is a dick that I wouldn't want to serve anyway.

Apognophos

Do you ever look back and wonder "what if"? What if the god of the bible is real?

No, reading scholarly thoughts on the Bible disabused me of that notion very quickly. I recommend reading one of the books that talks about the writing of the Bible. Once you see it for the collection of conflicting and redacted writings that it is, you won't ever think there was a God behind it.

What if there is a creator who is not the god of the bible?

What if there is? What is he asking from you? Apparently nothing, since he chooses to hide from us. There's nothing I've seen to recommend one religion over another as being more truthful, and if you distill all religions down to their common core, it's just "Be nice and show gratitude", isn't it?

prologos

IEJ: you said it for me. awesome what you could do with 2 eyes open. listen to him toweragent.

DJS

Toweragent:

Regarding this: "For those of you who are now athiest: Do you ever look back and wonder "what if"? What if the god of the bible is real? What if there is a creator who is not the god of the bible?"

My response would be never, not even for a nano-second. But like MadGiant, I spent decades questioning the god/bible thing, even when I was in the Borg and even (especially) when I was an elder. I studied, researched, analyzed, evaluated and meditated on the topic to the point there wasn't anything left to consider. And guess what? I found, at the end of the sojourn, that I was an atheist.

I knew at the beginning of the trip that this could/would be the eventual destination, but I took my time, removing one brick and a time until the foundation (god, the bible) was left. Then I dug that up. I have referred to it previously as my "Pink Floyd" trek into atheism - Another Brick in the Wall.

I never worry about anything beyond this life. I try to live this life to its full. For those who ask me what would I do if there turned out to go a god I respond the same everytime: If there is a god, and she created me, then she knows me, who I am and why I made the decisions I made. The weight of evidence is against a god; I think you probably already know that. But really, what does it matter what you believe? Your belief in a god or not is not going to change anything, even YOUR future.

Good luck.

sporece

Have been Catholic and a JW for 32, left in 2007 and never look back or wonder what if there is a creator and missing out on something. If there was a creator there would not be the confucion that we see about him.

Everything dies in the universe and on earth and so do humans.

And by the way,for some it might be a relief to die and not be with their wife eternally.

Yan Bibiyan

toweagent,

How much time do you spend wondering "what if" Islam is the only true religion? What about Hinduism? What if Zeuss is the only god?

See, you will need a lifetime or two to explore and investigate every claim for divinity. Does that mean you should spend your only life doing so? Absolutely not.

In the words of a famos atheist : "They (religions) can't all be right, but they can all be wrong".

Good luck in your journey to find truth.

Mum

toweragent, I like this quotation from Dr. Laura: I don't live in the land of "what if;" I live in the land of what IS! So, whether or not there is a God or gods, it makes little difference to us. When was the last time you saw God rescue someone who was being harmed? I understand that it is allegedly beneficial for children to believe in God. Adults, however, have to think for themselves.

What matters to me and everyone else (I consider myself an agnostic individualist) is what we want out of life, the life that we have, right here, right now. As Christopher Morley said, There is only one success - to live your life the way you choose to live it. All of us on this board are trying to do that. We all have limitations in terms of finances and family matters, but we all can improve our lives in various ways.

So, no, I don't waste my time on "what ifs" about divinity. Very little that happens is under our control. If there is an afterlife, so be it, but if there is, that doesn't mean God made it that way. Rather, it's part of the cycle of life.

I started living again at age 32. It was a struggle at first, and the road was not always smooth. But it has been worth every bit of it.

sir82

I would be extraordinarily surprised if virtually all atheists had not asked those "what if" questions dozens or hundreds or thousands of times, before arriving at the conclusion that they are, indeed, atheists.

If you are still asking, then you are not "atheist" yet.

Athiests: Do you ever wonder... what if?

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