by Randomthoughts 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
This is regarding the Garden of Eden/Apple dispute.
If the all knowing, all powerful God sees/knows the future then surely the angels (that he created) should know the God knows the future.
Now God knows that humans cannot rule themselves, hence the angels should also know this 'fact'.
Why does he need to prove this point to the angels (as is taught by the WT)?
Do the angels doubt The Almighty God or do they have a reason not to trust or believe him?
Now whilst I am out I'll put my dub-thinking cap on.
IF God gives creatures free-will to do whatever then He would still need to prove His rule is best to His creatures....Him knowing the future has nothing to do with it...
But IF He can know everything and He will sort things out on earth then no-one has free will...
From the Christian view why was Satan so pissed at God.
The watchtower does not know what they are talkng about.
They have proven that over and over.
My take on the garden of Eden dispute.
God is the author of history.
He knows the begining from the end.
We are God having a human, material experience.
We are entertaining ourselves.
Relax and enjoy the ride.
God never gave humans the chance to truly rule themselves according to the jw view.
He has interfered numerous times and has sent Satan & the demons to earth, and allowed Satan to become Earth's ruler.
He caused humans to become imperfect and die, thus the question of rulership will never be truly answered:
Could perfect, sinless humans with everlasting life, with no intereference by God, satan, demons, angels, nothing, rule themselves successfully?
God does not WANT humans to rule, HE wants to rule over them.
Well, according to Revelation, (not the WTS) He knows the end from the beginning (e.g. Christ crucified before the foundation of the world). But can an all knowing God limit His foreknowledge? It certainly would serve to make life more interesting...at least from His perspective.
There are suggestions of such limitation in scripture (e.g. offering children to Molech never came into God's mind, and to Abraham after offering the ram instead of Issac, "Now I know...."
God sees and knows all things.
Job 42:2
No thought can be withholden from thee.
Psalm 44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
Psalm 139:7-8
Whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place.
Jeremiah 16:17
For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
Jeremiah 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?
Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men.
1 John 3:20
God ... knoweth all things.
There are some things that God doesn't know and can't see.
Genesis 3:8
And Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord, amongst the trees of the garden.
Genesis 4:14-16
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid. (v.14)
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. (v.16)
Genesis 11:5
And the Lord came down to see the city and the town.
Genesis 18:9
And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
Genesis 18:17-21
And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do? (v.17)
And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and, if not, I will know. (vv.20-21)
Genesis 22:12
For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Genesis 32:27
And he [God] said unto him [Jacob], What is thy name?
Numbers 22:9
And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee?
Deuteronomy 8:2
God led thee these forty years in the wilderness ... to know what what in thine heart.
Deuteronomy 13:3
The Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God.
2 Chronicles 32:31
God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.
Job 1:7, 2:2
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Hosea 8:4
They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not.
Jonah 1:3, 10
But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD ... For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
It is simple. See here:
Since speculating about her qualities is pointless unless we first prove that she (god) exists, and the above chart (which includes the "can God see the future?" question) proves that she - at least in vaguely Abrahamic form - doesn't, the thread ends here.
"GOD EXISTS - ORPHANED TERMINATOR"
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But IF He can know everything and He will sort things out on earth then no-one has free will...
My answer to this as a JW would have been that God knew some would stay faithful, but not which ones, thus not depriving individuals of free will in choosing whether to serve him.
Arguably God's greatest action against man's free will is not fixing the future in place by foreseeing it, but rather by saying, "Worship me or die." There are other options to avoid the "wicked" infecting the good, such as placing the wicked on their own planet to let them rule themselves, and enforcing a no-fly zone between planets. But seeing as the Bible was written at a time when Earth was the only planet (the planets in the sky being called "stars"), it's understandable that nobody thought of that option. Furthermore, the Bible's apocalyptic parts stem from a basic human obsession with the end of the world that doesn't allow for escapees.
It was Gods desire to fellowship with man. Adam had the opportunity to grow into perfection.He chose the wrong fruit. He had at his disposal every other fruit and living waters, which were symbolic of being at one with God in the fullness of the spirit. The same thing applies today, so when we decide we will eat of that good fruit whichis from Christ ,the way is opend up to reveal Christ in you and once again reconciled with God. It does not come from a religion or a book, He is the living word, within you either buried by layers upon layers from man and religion stop the fullness of him in you or revealed the bible is the testimony of Christ and now all mankind is forgiven so he will be made manifest in everyone
