Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained?

truthseeker

Has anyone really pondered what this means? Jehovah said that no man can see God and live, and here at least 70 people saw Jehovah standing on a bright blue pavement.

24 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord , you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord ; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him.”

3 When Moses went and told the people all the Lord ’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said.

He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord . 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

12 The Lord said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone with the law and commandments I have written for their instruction.”

Apognophos

Well, the NWT's wording of 24:11 is significantly different:

"He did not harm the distinguished men of Israel, and they saw a vision of the true God and ate and drank."

This rendering "saw a vision of" is permissible according to what I saw from other usages of the Hebrew word that's used there, and translating it this way implies that they saw a vision rather than a physical manifestation of God.

westiebilly11

How could they differentiate between a vision and the real thing?...how would they have known?

Comatose

Well since WT has told us you can't see god and live, then they can be sure of their translation since it evidently must have been a vision.

truthseeker

I'm trying to envisage 70 older men eating and drinking and watching Jehovah at the same time.

I just can't see it. At Mt. Sinai, everyone was told to stay away from where God was, in this scripture they see God at the same time they're casually eating and drinking.

Something's not right here.

truthseeker

Here is the verse in different translations, nothing here about seeing visions. Must be a NWT thing.

Parallel Verses New International Version
and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky.

New Living Translation
There they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there seemed to be a surface of brilliant blue lapis lazuli, as clear as the sky itself.

English Standard Version
and they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.

New American Standard Bible
and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.

King James Bible
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
and they saw the God of Israel. Beneath His feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire stone, as clear as the sky itself.

International Standard Version
and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, as clear as the sky.

NET Bible
and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear like the sky itself.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
They saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made out of sapphire as clear and blue as the sky itself.

Jubilee Bible 2000
and they saw the God of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone like unto the heaven when it is clear.

King James 2000 Bible
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the very heaven in its clearness.

American King James Version
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

American Standard Version
And they saw the God of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and as it were the very heaven for clearness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And they saw the God of Israel: and under his feet as it were a work of sapphire stone, and as the heaven, when clear.

Darby Bible Translation
and they saw the God of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were work of transparent sapphire, and as it were the form of heaven for clearness.

English Revised Version
and they saw the God of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and as it were the very heaven for clearness.

Webster's Bible Translation
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire-stone, and as it were the body of heaven in its clearness.

World English Bible
They saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was like a paved work of sapphire stone, like the skies for clearness.

Young's Literal Translation
and they see the God of Israel, and under His feet is as the white work of the sapphire, and as the substance of the heavens for purity;

wizzstick

This rendering "saw a vision of" is permissible according to what I saw from other usages of the Hebrew word that's used there,

Really?

And which Hebrew word is that?

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/24-11.htm

Apognophos

You've compared the wrong verse. I was speaking of verse 11, though you'll find that most translations render that verb "see" as well.

However, verse 10 uses the verb "raah" for "see" and verse 11 uses "chazah" for "see". "Chazah" is used in the Bible for less direct or more poetic kinds of seeing. It's often used to refer to seeing visions or to prophesying. Now, I'm not defending the NWT wording, but I'm explaining how they could feel justified in using "saw a vision" instead of "saw". It doesn't change the fact that the word "raah" in verse 10 is a direct kind of seeing verb, but the Society would argue that verse 11 is an amplification of verse 10 which clarifies that it was actually a vision being referred to. The vision could have been something indistinct like a man whose body was obscured by light (only the flagstones and his feet are mentioned).

That being said, I do think the original writer intended to be saying that God was actually standing or seated on a throne before the 70 men. The mountains were considered to touch on God's domain because they were the pillars of heaven which helped support the sky, so the writer is telling us that these holy men went up to the top of this holy mountain and had an audience with God.

Edit: I guess this answers wizzstick's question too. Follow the links on BibleHub and you'll see what I mean.

truthseeker

Apognophos,

I understand what you are trying to say but it would only make sense if the whole passage was poetic.

There is nothing remotely poetic about these verses, they continue on in like manner from v1-8.

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

truthseeker

This is what happens when WT writers can't accept the verse as being literal because it contradicts the other verse that says "no man can see God and live'".

So, they took it upon themselves to change the Hebrew verse so that it conforms to their theology. This eliminates the contradiction.

Anything where Bible verses contradict each other can simply be explained away as a vision or symbolic imagery.

Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained?

Has anyone really pondered what this means? Jehovah said that no man can see God and live, and here at least 70 people saw Jehovah standing on a bright blue pavement.

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