JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Heaven: This prayer before sex thing would be a 100% turn off for me.

  I dunno, but does it qualify as a prayer when someone shouts, "Oh God! Yes, Yes, YES!"?
  
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  MaxTan

  I feel that the Watchtower is still telling people what not to do in the bedroom. Although they dont want to say it directly in print, to not appear as unreasonable, they clearly still condemn oral sex, and this has not gone unnoticed by the faithful - among them my wife, unfortuntely... but that's not the only issue she has...

  As late as w07 10/15 p.27 they said:

  8. As to oral sex, how do Christians differ from many people of the world?

  8 Hebrews 13:4 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 establish that God disapproves of both adultery and fornication (Greek, por·neiʹa). What does the latter include? The Greek term involves the use of the genital organs in either a natural or a perverted way with lewd intent. It includes all forms of illicit sexual relations outside of Scriptural marriage. So it includes oral sex, despite the fact that many teenagers around the world have been told or have come to the conclusion that oral sex is acceptable. True Christians do not guide their thinking and actions by the opinions of “profitless talkers, and deceivers of the mind.” (Titus 1:10) They hold to the higher standard of the Holy Scriptures. Rather than try to make excuses for oral sex, they understand that Scripturally it is fornication, por·neiʹa, and they train their conscience accordingly.*—Acts 21:25; 1 Corinthians 6:18; Ephesians 5:3.

  Although meant to condemn any sexual relations between unmarried people, the faithful married jws will only read: "God disapproves... Fornication... oral sex". And the footnote links to w83, posted earlier by Brock Talon, where oral sex is presented as being perverted.

  So if this is not Watchtower condemning certain types of sex and forcing their way into couple's bedrooms, i dont know what is.
• 

  Vidiot

  Authoritarian regimes have always - always - disliked the free expression of sexuality.

  They would prefer their subjects direct those energies towards the advancement of the regime's agenda... whatever it happens to be.
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  Brock Talon

  konceptual99,

  I appreciate the clarifications of your earlier comments. I did feel you were being a bit dismissive of, and over simplifying a severe problem among Jehovah's Witnesses. It is good to see you are balanced on the topic. I don't post much on this board, but I did so on this topic because I believe it to be an important one, especially for the young people reading these posts because I worry for them.
  

  That said, I want to add some more food for thought for you regarding your belief that the vast majority of problems in marriages is due to being "hitched to the wrong person". Although that is probably a true point, this is still related to the sexual repression of the JW faith. It is a problem of their own making for their adherents due to the unreasonable expectations of dating and marriage. It is not a separate issue.
  

  If you ban masturbation and teach premarital sex (even once) can cause your destruction, the only logical way out is to marry, and marry young.

  If you limit your potential marriage mates to whomever is eligible in the Kingdom Halls in your small community, or to the gal or guy circling around and around at the assemblies, the only logical way out is to marry the person that is the least objectionable.

  If you tell young people that not only do they have to be JWs, but "in good standing and showing exemplary spiritual convictions, like pioneering and ministerial work" etc., the only logical way out is to pick anyone who may qualify that isn't too hideous.

  If you tell young people they have to be chaperoned during dating and cannot even discuss sex before marriage alone with their potential spouses because it can "lead to things", the only way out is to marry that person in sexual ignorance and hope you are sexually compatible.

  If you teach (or even imply) that oral or anal sex is "wrong" for married couples, and that masturbation is wrong post marriage as well, the only logical way out is to refrain and be sexually repressed and have your marriage suffer.
  

  ...or you can do as you have suggested many do and ignore all of these things, only to be terrified you will be discovered and have it all come crashing down on you, all the while suffering from crippling guilt...
  

  Neither choice is all that good if you are a JW.

  From what I have learned of other Christian churches since leaving the Watch Tower, it is fairly unique among Jehovah's Witnesses... at least to the extremes suffered by those in that faith. Other Christian churches simply just do not inflict these things as severely upon their members as the good old WTS does.
• 

  konceptual99

  Hi Brock - you are spot on. If people are getting married to the wrong partners then you have to ask why and the pressure to conform to the WTS view of morals and who might make a good marriage partner are critical factors in this, as your post describes.

  The slight irony in this is that you could argue from an objective perspective that the WTS advice on dating actually does carry some sensible advice. Ignoring the views on sexual conduct and the "spiritual qualifications" then much of what is left of what the WTS says could be decent, secular advice such as discouraging rushing into a relationship, doing so at a young age, ignoring the warning signs of a poor relationship, papering over severely bad personality traits, looking only at physical attractiveness, developing good communication patterns etc.

  The problem for the WTS is that all of this "good" advice gets swamped by fact that the majority of the young people it is aimed at are hormones on sticks, have no other outlet for their feelings other than pursuing them and do not have other things to focus their attention on such as getting a good education.

  I don't think it is breaking news that choosing the right life partner whatever your beliefs is not an exact science. I have no doubt that the circumstances peculiar to Jehovah's Witnesses adds yet more complexity to this. All the issues and factors you mention have as much resonance now as they would have done 20 or 40 years ago. When I look at the marriages I know that have failed then the culture of dating in the WTS has contributed to people getting married that otherwise almost certainly would not have done. Naturally the problems in the physical, emotional and personal aspects of the relationship are all intertwined but going on the numerous breakups I have witnessed over the years, I cannot point at one where more pre-marital sex or what has (or has not) gone on in the bedroom could really be said to be at the heart of matter.

  At the end of the day, however, what you posted is absolutely food for thought and I really hope that there are young people who read it and take notice of the massive impact that looking for love inside the constraints of a WT courtship could have.
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  tim3l0rd

  I find it interesting that they have not printed anything directly on sexual practices between married couples since 1983. We've had almost everything else regurgitated except that. However, I know that within the last couple of years it was reiterated at an elders' school that oral sex is forbidden even between married couples. So while they don't dare to print anything official (since it would probably lead to many really questioning the org or deciding not to join), they still push the issue behind the scenes and allow the elders to share the information that they received at their school.

  After my wife heard this through an elder's wife, we had to stop all oral. Only after several long discussions and me pointing out other scriptures that I felt allowed various intimate relations did she start to feel that this is really up to our conscience and not whatever the congregation dictates. This org is so detrimental to intimate relations. I understand that couples need to be open, honest, and respectful about what each other likes/dislikes, but we don't need a third party pushing their ideals and inducing guilt on something so personal and intimate.