Speaking of Fred...Once I saw a picture of him with a friend of mine, he had his arm wrapped around her and was touching the side of her boob. She said, 'yes! He touched my boob!' she thought he didn't know what he was doing because he was blind....um, I think he knew what he was doing.
JWs and their views on Sex
by campaign of hate 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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zebulon
The week my wife was baptized the oral sex STOPPED! I looked up the issue on jwfacts.com and what I found was surprising. The newest doctrine, in the "Shepard the Flock" manual, is that oral sex is a big negative. Except those that are married. But this little tidbit has flip-flopped/changed more times than the "generation" teaching.
When I questioned the wife about this, with the information, I was told I was "being selfish". Go figure!
Rob
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FayeDunaway
A (different) friend, years ago, was gossiping about a young man in our cong. who was married but was caught with a prostitute. He had asked for oral sex. The friend said to me 'many men like that, and we don't do it because jehovah doesn't like it. So he went somewhere else to get it.' And I was thinking 'me and my husband do that stuff all the time!'
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Brock Talon
konceptual99
Perhaps the last 20+ years point qualification you make about WTS and sex is valid, I don't know. But this is the stuff I grew up with, and let me tell you, it had a BIG affect on me and on my peers. If you were not affected by this stuff, then you are relatively young:
"Thus 'fornication' is set forth as the only ground for divorce. In the common Greek in which Jesus’ words are recorded, the term 'fornication' is por·nei'a, which designates all forms of immoral sexual relations, perversions and lewd practices such as might be carried on in a house of prostitution, including oral and anal copulation... Hence, circumstances could arise that would make lewd practices of a married person toward that one’s marriage mate a Scriptural basis for divorce. For example, a wife may do what she reasonably can to prevent her husband from forcing upon her perversions such as are carried on in a brothel. Yet, due to his greater strength, he might overpower her and use her for perverted sex. So as not to be prostituted in this way at another time, a Christian wife may decide to get a divorce... If, on the other hand, the lewd practices were engaged in by mutual consent, neither mate would have a basis for claiming por·nei'a as a Scriptural ground for divorce. This is so because neither party is innocent and seeking freedom from a mate guilty of por·nei'a. Both marriage partners are guilty. Such a case, if brought to the attention of elders in the congregation, would be handled like any other serious wrongdoing." (Watchtower, 1974, November 15, pages 703-704.)
"What, though, if one mate wants or even demands to share with his or her partner in what is clearly a perverted sex practice? The above-presented facts show that porneia involves unlawful sexual conduct outside the marital arrangement. Thus, a mate’s enforcing perverted acts, such as oral or anal sex, within the marriage would not constitute a Scriptural basis for a divorce that would free either for remarriage... if it becomes known that a member of the congregation is practicing or openly advocating perverted sex relations within the marriage bond, that one certainly would not be irreprehensible, and so would not be acceptable for special privileges, such as serving as an elder, a ministerial servant or a pioneer. Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation." (Watchtower, 1983, March 15, page 31.)
"Likewise, unclean practices, such as masturbation, which can be a steppingstone to homosexuality, have been dealt with in a serious, yet understanding, way, to help individuals keep clean and pure in Jehovah's eyes." (Watchtower, 1976, February 15, pages 122-123.)
"Helpful in this regard, then, is appreciating the fact that autoeroticism or masturbation is no mere innocent pastime but rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts." (Watchtower, 1970, May 15, page 315.)
"'Every serious statistical study that we have shows clearly that . . . at least ninety-five per cent of boys and young men between thirteen and twenty-five years of age pass through periods of habitual masturbation of varying lengths,' says one authority on the subject. As for girls, this source says that 'forty to fifty per cent are found to actually masturbate'.... Because masturbation is unnatural... Masturbation (like homosexuality) ignores or bypasses that natural arrangement. It is one form of leaving 'the natural use of the female' for 'one contrary to nature'... Because the practice is one 'contrary to nature,' the masturbator pays a mental penalty. The habitual practice cripples his social and emotional development, hinders his attaining a healthful outlook and attitude toward the other sex and toward people in general. It can 'turn the person inward' upon himself, making him introverted. Or it can, and frequently does, lead into homosexuality, in which the person, not satisfied with his lonely sexual activity, seeks a partner for mutual sex play." (Watchtower, 1973 September 15, pages 564-565.)
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DJS
Zebulon,
The week my now ex-wife was baptized the oral sex STOPPED!
There, I fixed that for you.
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FayeDunaway
Interesting how strongly they assert masturbation leads to homsexuality...if you were to believe that, you would think that with 93% of males doing it...there would be a lot more homosexuals!
Blech, well im glad we missed this early 70's stuff, being too young. They need to get themselves out of people's bedrooms. No, a man who is 'stronger' should not force a woman into any sex act she doesn't want to do...again, the need to make sure you are sexually compatible before marriage!
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steve2
Some really level-minded comments on this thread. Konceptual99, I particularly appreciate yours - you write so well on the more subtle and often hidden aspects of sexual difficulties within relationships and the way differences that may already exist between couples can at times be accentuated by conscience-led warnings by the organization.
In general, what is said of the Witnesses, could be applied to any strict religious group with taboos on aspects of human behaviour that non-religious people accept as governed by their own preferences.
Regarding the older-expressed view in Watchtower litersture that masturbstion leads to homosexuality, there must be untold numbers of JW males who likely don't have one iota of an inclination towards same-sex scenarios and who know from their own private habits there is no correlation between masturbation and their own sexual orientation.
Speaking of authorities views on "self-abuse", some of the medical theories of old on the perils of masturbation would today makes us laugh - but back in the days of youthful naivete, terror of consequences for health and wellbeing ran high. And still the urge to do it continued unabated. Oh, the torments peculiar to youth and the need for informed comment on private practices!
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GrreatTeacher
Brock, your quote is from 1974, but they still raved on about this through the 1980s. I was a teenager and heard it from the PLATFORM all the time. Small children were exposed to this stuff.
Maybe if you're in your early 30s or younger, it wasn't a big deal, possibly, but if you're nearing 40, then it was certainly a big deal made out of it in your formative years.
Just to clarify, what happens in your bedroom is your business and your business only. You do only what you're comfortable with. But to mold your thoughts on the subject by repeatedly pronouncing that oral sex is vile is a violation of your volition (alliteration, anyone?) on the subject.
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stan livedeath
Because masturbation is unnatural... Masturbation (like homosexuality) ignores or bypasses that natural arrangement. It is one form of leaving 'the natural use of the female' for 'one contrary to nature'... Because the practice is one 'contrary to nature,' the masturbator pays a mental penalty. The habitual practice cripples his social and emotional development, hinders his attaining a healthful outlook and attitude toward the other sex and toward people in general. It can 'turn the person inward' upon himself, making him introverted. Or it can, and frequently does, lead into homosexuality, in which the person, not satisfied with his lonely sexual activity, seeks a partner for mutual sex play." (Watchtower, 1973 September 15, pages 564-565.)
who on earth wrote that shit ?
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Brock Talon
I don't keep up with the new Watch Tower beliefs at all because I think them all to be nonsense and don't waste my time with such things any more, so I might be missing something. Maybe you guys can help me here.
That said, I would think that unless a Watchtower came out an negated the stuff I just showed that was published in the 70s and 80s Watchtowers, it would still apply. You can't even claim "old light" / "new light" with something unless the so-called new light or new clarifications or new thinking or new whatever is actually claimed somewhere.
So, does anyone have any quotes from any literature since the dates of those publications that has specifically negated or minimized the above crap that the Watchtower told me as a young person about oral sex or masturbation?
If not, then this stuff STILL APPLIES and can be used against any person in a JW Kingdom Hall committee meeting.
These were not "supposed" sex rules by the way, they were real. Maybe people are ignoring them now and they are simply old rules in the book, but if they haven't been revoked, they are still in the book.