The WT Isn't Going Away (sorry got long)

by LostGeneration 46 Replies latest jw friends

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  LostGeneration

  Meta- More cash? Who knows, I dont and neither do you. They just sold off a billion in real estate. They are priming the rest of their waterfront property this very minute. Could bring in another billion before they beat it upstate. As to the rest of the items, what would you do if you were running the Corp? Continue printing endless drivel for which there is no public demand. The death of print was actaully a blessing in disguise for them, the perfect excuse to get out of the business.

  Vidiot - Sort of the purpose of this thread, have seen hundreds over the years predicting the demise of the WT. Yet they survive. False prophecies, UN involvement, shunning, lawsuits, shit doctrine - none of it matters! Why? Because they have a product that they don't have to deliver, everlasting life in a paradise on earth!

  The point is they aren't going anywhere, so if you are 'in', you have to sack up and get out!
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  LostGeneration

  Think about this, could you run a real estate investment trust where you had the following advantages:

  Tax free status

  Free labor to build your buildings

  Free labor to manage your buildings (RBC)

  Continuous monthly stream of income, until Armageddon arrives.

  "Buying power" ability to strike discounted deals on materials

  No accountability, no quarterly or annual reports to investors.

  No dividend to pay (other than everlasting life)

  Those are the advantages I can think of in 5 minutes, I'm sure there are many more with this new real estate ploy.

  They aren't going anywhere!
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  DATA-DOG

  I don't think they are going to disappear anytime soon. They are just "mainstream" enough to survive. The general public does not even know what JWs even believe, let alone regard them as a dangerous, family destroying cult. As time flows along, the WTBTS could be reduced significantly, IF..IF..IF they are continually exposed. A HUGE scandal/expose' would be very damaging, and the WTBTS know it. Thats why they push the hate-speech as far as they can, and control information.

  Does anyone really think that A.M.III and Co. really care if half their current members disappear? They can downsize, retain the uber-brainwashed and still thrive. All the "pros" listed above are proof of that. Unless the Governments of the world, or Aliens, or Satan himself destroys the WTBTS, I don't see them going extinct. There are so many "minor" sects and bat-shit crazy cults in existence! They are not nearly as advanced as the WTBTS and they survive. As long as people are gullible and fail to reason and research, cults will live on.

  I used to believe that GOD and Jesus would discipline the WTBTS and all "False Religion." I am no longer holding my breath. I am changing my life and planning for old age.

  DD
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  kneehighmiah

  You guys are ignoring the elephant in the room. They can't recruit because no one besides a few mentally ill people are buying what they're selling. the statistics show this. Check out jwfacts. you guys are all basing your models based off of past years when the organization could recruit. If the organization could still recruit at the rate of the early 90s, membership would be over 14 million. They've lost out on 6 million new recruits! They've crunched the numbers.

  I hate to be morbid, but if you can't get new recruits your members age and die. I'm under 30. You guys who've been around since the 70s will all be dead within 20-30 years. This is what's happening. Think this weeks watchtower about caring for elderly parents. please tell me how the organization will continue to grow its membership? I've yet to hear anyone tell me where future growth will come from.
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  DATA-DOG

  That's why I said the WTBTS will decline "IF" they are continually exposed. We are at a nexus in my opinion. The information age is in full swing. I can find anything on the internet from midget porn to how to train a squirrel to water ski. The WTBTS demonized the NET from it's inception because they had no visionaries. Think about how the WTBTS operates for a moment. At the local level, a BOE wants to buy a lawn mower. This simple task becomes a Herculean assignment because of the insanity and legalism of the WTBTS. If the majority of Eldubs want to be stupid, the minority must obey or be labled as rebellious "Korah's." So how the hell does anything get done? Extremely painfully and slowly, like sloths mating.

  Remember, JWs were df'd for apostasy for saying that there was no FDS "class" in the not so distant past. That "apostasy" is now "the truth." Imagine being an up and coming JW bigshot and KNOWING what we know, and seeing what we see! There is zero difference between you and I and Mark Sanderson, save one. He is at World Headquarters and partakes, that's it. He knows what we know, but he is a company man. Imagine trying to make any changes in an archaic sect like the BORG? You could be DF'd and then your career plans are screwed!

  So, FINALLY, the old guard is dying off. Some have the good business sense to rebrand the JW religion. Why? Because it's dying!! The writing is on the wall, so to speak. The question is, did they act quickly enough? Will they ever grow like they did in the past? Or, will they simply decline as our parents "generation" die off? Who is going to run the show? Not me!! I have more life experience than all the 20 something Eldubs in the USA put together, but I am not lifitng a finger to help the ORG!

  You make a good point about recruiting new members. Where will they come from? AFRICA?!?!? What are they going to contribute? A goat?? That's why the BORG are grabbing cash from the developed lands NOW. What happens when the American based JWs fizzle out? JWism is an American sect, despite the Org's claims to the contrary. When the consumer base continues to die off, and the new Internet Educated children are hittng their 20s, are they going to be "ever loyal?" Can the Borg adapt enough to survive? After all the BORG refuse to adapt, they want to assimilate everyone else, and we all know that you either adapt or die. Time will tell if they switched up their game soon enough or not.

  DD
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  problemaddict

  So let me put in a few thoughts and address some key points.

  1) Aging membership. - Yes, the membership is getting old, sick, and tired. But in many places there are "up and coming" people to take the controls. While we think based on an old pew forum that a little more than 60% leave the organization, we do not know how many come back. With population growth, those that are dying can easily be replaced, and membership continues to go up wth population.

  2) "New guard" - I had an elder who is 29 years old, tell me he was deeply saddened I have "left mother". So......think the upcoming crop has been properly trained by the branch? Yeah.....me too.

  3) Rebranding - JW.org is not just a site, its a rebranding. it has brought them around to modern times, seems pretty slick, and has more reach than the magazines. Don't be surprized if they rebrand alot of things (including the magazines), with JW.org.

  4) Practicality and money. - The branch with more of a focus on regional distribution, the internet, and less travelling brothers and places to organize conventions, is already streamlining its cash allocation. Its basically pretty smart. Alot more changes to come there I think. Also, the "practical value" of "biblical principles" is what is being highlighted on the public side. So much so, that people that study find it hard to believe what some of the things were that JW's taught. They slowly are enforcing a narrative around the past, to squeeze it from mattering to everyday people.

  5) Recruitment - I have friends who have bible studies. Some they meet int he field, some they get from the hall, and I have seen a few baptized. So it still happens. The chief person they go after is the apathetic believer. They still focus on the "basics" to them, and then throw in and whitewash the rest. By the time someone REALLY figures out they can't celebrate their birthday anymore, they are usually already in pretty deep.

  So in short, to hope the religion goes away, isn't realistic. There are plenty of die hards out there, and don't be surprised if they even are dragged a bit kicking and screamign into some kind of reform, even behind the scenes. Its hard to get disfellowshipped for taking blood now a days.....but that was not always the case.
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  DesirousOfChange

  But in many places there are "up and coming" people to take the controls.

  "New guard" - I had an elder who is 29 years old, tell me he was deeply saddened I have "left mother". So......think the upcoming crop has been properly trained by the branch?

  These comments remind me of a Super-Duper-High-Profile-Former-Bethelite-Prominent-Elder in our circuit. He's old, retired but still a diehard and has a permanent position on every assembly/convention. His 30yo son is now and elder in our congregation. A bright young man who is evidently(TM) brainwashed by the cult-speak. He's following the shoes of dad and granddad.

  Why? He's of the age that he knows how to use a computer. Why hasn't he learned TTATT? The information is out there.

  NOPE. He's still "IN". Probably until something affects him personally and he questions things. With Daddy being a prominent Clergy figure among the JWs, ain't nobody gonna touch the fair-haired son. He's JW Royalty.

  Doc
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  LostGeneration

  you guys are all basing your models based off of past years when the organization could recruit.

  Far from it. They were at 6 million 20 years ago. Now they are almost at 8 million. Not that numbers really matter. They don't really care about the old days of 5 percent growth. They simply want the ship to keep on sailing, with loyalty and obedience being the top priority.

  Everyone comes on here screaming about 70% of the kids leaving. And you know what that means? 30% stay, and they get to be the rock stars in the org. They can easily survive negative growth down to 5 million, as long as people contribute their money and time.

  Kneehigh, do you ever go on Facebook/Instagram/twitter and read the drivel these JWs write? They are ALL IN and nothing is going to shake them free unless a pedo rapes one of their children. Its a sad fact, but they are in it for SELFISH reasons, to look good in front of their social group - and to spout off about how faithful they are to the b0RG. All kinds of blather about 'Just got back from the KH build' or 'the convention' with selfies posted all over the place. They are PROUD of it. I'll tell ya, its one thing to be stuck in the org, which was my mindset back in the day, but I never broadcast it, even at work. These tools are really, really gone - more than ever I believe.
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  kneehighmiah

  Lol lost generation. I actually made an old post about the Instabragging as I call it. Some of the biggest braggers who are doing the most #serviceflow post are the ones getting d'fed becUse they're leading double lives. Social media is all about status. People post their spiritual resume on their profile, like anyone cares. Most people live fake likes on social media to increase their status. The more status you have as a JW the more attention you get from the opposite sex. Guys are posting public talks they gave, but are in the club with a pioneer sister grinding on them the next weekend. And I've been on a few out of town trips And seen some things. What happens out of town stays out of town. You're right though, JWs aren't really spiritual it's all for show. Other friends are depressed, and they gain fleeting comfort by having people comment and compliment them on their posts of them doing service or studying.
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  sir82

  They can't recruit because no one besides a few mentally ill people are buying what they're selling.

  True for the US & Western Europe; however, the message of "a better world tomorow" still has lots of appeal in the 3rd world.

  I have to imagine that for a dirt-poor semi-starving illiterate village dweller living in a mosquito-infested swamp under a banana leaf hut, the sight of even the most rudimentary Kingdom Hall and folks dressed in relatively expensive western-world wear (suits, ties, dresses) would be extraordinarily attractive. It would give them hope not only for the future but the present.

  The numbers will continue to inch upward for at least another 5 or 6 years.

  However, recruitment really isn't the issue. Those dirt-poor banana-hut dwellers can only contribute a few cents a month; hence the shameless money grab now.

  The one-time grab of accumulated congregation savings accounts will tide them over for a few years, at least until they get into their shiny new headquarters. But the monthly receipts will continue to dwindle.

  I can't think of any other untapped sources of wealth left for them to access, unless they start mandating the sale of Kingdom Halls and advocate the cramming of 4 or 5 congregations into the remaining ones. I wonder if that is their next step?