I need to verify some information

by JeffT 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  JeffT

  There have been a lot of threads regarding changes in donations, Kingdom Hall ownership etc. and what it all means. I'm about to put on my accounting hat on and seriously consider the what it all means part (and why they may be doing it). I want to confirm my understanding of two basic facts:

  1) Kingdom Halls are now owned by the WTBS and not the local congregation

  2) Mortgages have been canceled, instead of making loan payments to the Society, the local congregations are pledging contributions of roughly the same amount. Congregations that had already paid off their mortgage are expected to pledge an amount roughly equal to what their mortgage would be if they had one. These payments will never end.

  I have some thoughts on what they're doing. I will probably post on my blog (and notify everybody when I do) as I'm trying to get the blog up and running again.

  Thanks for your help.
• 

  Phizzy

  I have been out too long to be a credible Witness (LOL) as to the facts on this.

  I am simply posting this to say thank you in advance Jeff, for your work on this.

  I value your opinion and look forward to your Blog article.
• 

  rip van winkle

  Just seemed illegal (or should be) for WT Org. to lend money and earn interest on donated money( voluntary contributions) to refurbish KH's and then ( as collateral??) hold title( and not return title) to the KH that formerly was owned by the congregation!!

  But, what do I know? The law can be twisted through loopholes.
• 

  The Searcher

  You said, "Congregations that had already paid off their mortgage are expected to pledge an amount roughly equal to what their mortgage would be if they had one" which is inaccurate.

  Congregations which do NOT currently repay a loan, simply have to carry out an anonymous Financial Survey to establish how much each Witness househould would be willing to donate each month to the new KH financing idea.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  In the US, religious organization are given wide berth by the Government, however lending/borrowing money, esp for Real Estate is coming under great scrutiny by the US Gov't and in many States since the "near-collapse" of the banking system.

  The JW system for lending money to a Cong to build a KHall; the Cong re-paying the loan; but in the end the mortgage-holder owns the Real Estate simply doesn't look good by anyone's standards. I think this new arrangement has the Legal Dept prints all over it.

  Looking forward to your professional assessment.

  Doc
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  OnTheWayOut

  A surface-search of the internet reveals virtually nothing to me about changes in the works over the money transactions from religious corporations that would cause this move. I suppose you have to be a lawyer on the inside circles, or else the Watchtower lawyers are just trying to think ahead, or this has nothing to do with legal concerns over loans and property ownership. I think it's that last part. I think it is simply the Borg thinking short-term and seizing the cash to pay off the lawsuits known and upcoming.

  I say that because this is bad for the organization in the long run. You have to become more dictatorial to keep making congregations send that money year after year. I see huge local adjustments in many congregations coming just one year from now, and "Mother" being very unhappy with those changes.
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  TTATTelder

  I think the change has to be regulation related for this reason:

  The Borg would never interrupt a locked-in income stream (aka Halls making mortgage payments) unless it was forced to do so.

  There seems to be new banking legislation steadily kicking in since the downturn of a few years ago.

  It could be, like someone posted on this forum, that their lending practices are now opening them up to mandated government scrutiny or disclosure.

  And we know they don't like that! They have too many secrets to be inviting govt inspection.

  And God forbid (see what I did there) anything possibly create more financial transparency.

  My 2 cents...

  -TE
• 

  OneEyedJoe

  or this has nothing to do with legal concerns over loans and property ownership. I think it's that last part. I think it is simply the Borg thinking short-term and seizing the cash to pay off the lawsuits known and upcoming.

  That seems plausible. Someone noticed the large supply of money being held by individual congregations and wanted to figure out a way to get thier hands on it. So they work backwards from the desired end result:

  We need the money they have on deposit, but many are saving for remodels/major repairs.

  We need them not to save for remodels, and need to make the solution appear 'loving' -> so tell them that we'll pay for remodels and all loans are forgiven.

  We don't want to lose the revenue stream from the loans for unneccessary renos, so tell them to continue at least what the loan was, but just call it a 'contribution'

  Hey, while we're at it, maybe we can use the oppurtunity to "equalize" and get everyone to pay like they've got a loan, even if they didn't have one!

  And boom, there's your 3/29 BOE letter.
• 

  Londo111

  marked
• 

  leaving_quietly

  1) Kingdom Halls are now owned by the WTBS and not the local congregation

  Not necessarily. There is a clause in congregation corporation bylaws that states that should the corporation evern be dissolved by whatever methods, the KH becomes the property of WTBTS.

  2) Mortgages have been canceled, instead of making loan payments to the Society, the local congregations are pledging contributions of roughly the same amount. Congregations that had already paid off their mortgage are expected to pledge an amount roughly equal to what their mortgage would be if they had one. These payments will never end.

  This is essentially correct. However, what is being donated on a monthly basis is to be reviewed every May. It might be possible that a congregation deems that the amount is lowered at some point in the future based on their own calculations as to when a loan would have been paid off.

  Personally, I see this as a response to an undisclosed legal issue. Likely something related to banking regulations. Possibly a lawsuit somewhere. Possbily something with some other organization and the WTBTS is trying to get a leg up on it. Who knows? I don't. But it has "legal" written all over it.