The Apostasy Within

by Ultimate Axiom 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Make Lemonade
    Make Lemonade

    Ultimate axiom: Teaching that the two witnesses in Rev. 11:3 are the modern day FDS is unscriptural. "I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy"

    Did God cause the GB/FDS to prophesy?

    1925 was not the end of the world as Rutherford and Franz taught

    Pyramidology was taught up to 1928

    1941+ or -, was not armaggeddon, and they should not have "suggested" that people should not have children

    1975 was presented as significant. The publications taught two truths at the same time. When 1975 was not the end they emphasized the disclaimers.

    1914 generation died off

    20th century is over and the end did not come

    All of the above and more show the modern day organization has not fullfilled the definition of being a prophet of God. Rev. 11:3

  • cha ching
    cha ching

    This type of 'reasoning' (done by the Watchtower!) is what is so brain numbing!

    The examples given througout this thread show the WT's contradictory, misleading, wily, manipulative character.

    The reason the WT has so many quotes about "Prophets," Prophets, inspired, holy spirit, God's Channel of Communication (and so many other nuances) IS so that they can 'quote mine' and deceive more easily.

    Once you see 'behind the curtain,' the evil of the WT is apparent.

  • Make Lemonade
    Make Lemonade

    Ultimate Axiom, you said:

    "Thus for all practical purposes, a JW must treat the FDS as if it were an inspired prophet"

    The above is true. That is beyond question. The testimony in the Douglas Walsh trial speaks to the fact that witnesses have to support error. Like a soldier following orders. All of this is unscriptural when we separate the "semantics" out of the equation. Watchtower writers are masters of presenting two conflicting thoughts at the same time. Also, the pattern is to stop talking about a failed teaching for a period of time, then begin to talk about "new light".

    My conviction at this point is to say that many things I was taught in the Revelation Climax book from 1988 to 2006 are simply wrong. A true prophet, that God caused to prophesy, would not be responsible for wrong teachings.

    There, I got that off my chest.

    Thanks for this thread and the opportunity to say it.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    marked

  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    cha ching, ‘quote mining’ cuts both ways, which is a good reason for doing it, for then the JW must confront the conflict. For example, consider the following three quotes that all JWs would have to endorse;

    A: “… really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?” (Is This Life All There Is? 1974, page 46).

    B: “When a Christian phrases things in such a way that he inwardly knows is leading brothers to a wrong conclusion, to believe something that is really not true, not accurate, how do you think God feels?” (Live With Jehovah’s Day in Mind, 2006, pages 114).

    C: “… there have been those in times past who predicted an “end to the world,” even announcing a specific date. Yet, nothing happened. The “end” did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying.” (Awake! October 8, 1968, page 23).

    All three of these can be supplemented with other quotes from the FDS that show that they stand guilty on all three counts, therefore in order to accept the above, they must reject the FDS - they face a similar pridicament to Vega in the first Star Trek film. Here’s a sample from many thousands of quotes that exist, that are already familiar to most on this forum, but I’ll give them for any that may not be familiar;

    A: “At the evening meeting Russell determined that now, since they had evidenced their interest in Christ’s return and … his presence, it was necessary for him to go deeper into this matter and talk to them about the time that these things would take place. This he did, pointing to 1914.” (Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, 1959, pages 35 and 36). Not for one moment in his entire life did Russell point to 1914 as the year Christ’s return and his second presence would take place. It was a quarter of a century after Russell was dead before the Watchtower assigned that event to 1914.

    B: “For over thirty years before [1914] … Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to the year 1914 as the time for the end of “the appointed times of the nations” and the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule.” (Watchtower, February 15, 1966, page 103). While it is true that years before 1914 Jehovah’s Witnesses declared that the Gentile Times would end in 1914, to imply that this was also the case for the time in which Christ would begin his Kingdom rule is deliberately misleading, at that time they believed the latter event occured in 1878.

    C: “in 1914 … the kingdom of God ... will have broken in pieces and consumed all earthly kingdoms.” (Zion’s Watch Tower, August, 1880, page 2). “The parallel, therefore, would establish definitely that the harvest would close forty years thereafter; to wit, in the spring of A. D. 1918.” (Watchtower, October 1, 1917, page 292). “The Scriptures clearly indicate that the climax is the fall of Satan’s empire and the full establishment of the Messianic kingdom. This climax being reached by 1925” (Golden Age, January 4, 1922, page 217). “Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these last days will undergo fulfilment” (Watchtower, May 1, 1968, page 272)

  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    I finally met up with my old friend the other week, and we spent a good couple of hours discussing old times and the state of things today. I won’t bore you with the details but when it came to the subject of unscriptural teachings I kept it to four points – the overlapping generation, the baptising of children, the new baptism question and the GBs demand for total obedience (although many other subjects came up as well).

    His position is somewhat unusual, and certainly not one that would have GB approval, for he doesn’t fully agree with any of the above, and as the ‘new light’ about the FDS includes the idea that Christ will not appoint the FDS over all his belongings until he comes for judgement at the Great Tribulation, it is possible that he won’t appoint the GB because they may not ultimately be found faithful and discreet.

    He believes that many Witnesses fall away because they do not confront the difficult questions now, so if they get hit by them, they are taken off-guard, unprepared, and hence easily stumbled. Great, I thought, I have quite a lot of difficult questions lined up, which I will carefully prepare for future meetings.

    The root of his continued presence as a Witness is the question that if this isn’t the Truth, then who has it? Where else is there to go? I believe a great part of it is also a lifetime of friends and all his family are Witnesses. It will be interesting to see how he defends the FDS against the ‘false prophet’ charge, which I plan to address with him next time.

  • AlphaMan
    AlphaMan

    I won’t bore you with the details but when it came to the subject of unscriptural teachings I kept it to four points – the overlapping generation, the baptising of children, the new baptism question and the GBs demand for total obedience (although many other subjects came up as well).

    .

    I like your style. Very very done.

  • cultBgone
    cultBgone

    Thanks for the follow up, we look forward to your further adventures teaching TTATT!

  • Make Lemonade
    Make Lemonade

    Very interesting details about your friend. Your experience highlights your friendship. We heard that people would listen to us if we showed we cared for them. Your friend is listening and discussing issues with you. That is not the mold the GB try to force their followers into. You have overcome that programming with your friend. You have shared a positive and practicle experience.

    I have to agree that many Jehovah's Witnesses fit your statements: "His position is somewhat unusual, and not one that would have GB approval................if this isn't the Truth, then who has it?............a great part of it is also a lifetime of friends and all his family are Witnesses."

    Many long time Witnesses are having to create "Compromise" rather than having the "Truth".

    Looking forward to what he says regarding the "false prohet" subject.

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