A startling example of a JW ignoring evidence

by Pyramid God 18 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Pyramid God

  I happen to work with my father, and today we got into another debate about the origin of life. During the debate, while rebutting a lot of creationist canards, he said that mutations are always harmful to an organism.

  After he left I sent him a quick email with a link to talk origins on the subject of mutations. By coincidence he called me up to his cubicle about two minutes later to give me another assignment. While he was explaning the task to me, I glanced at his open inbox on the screen. I noticed the email I sent only two minutes prior was missing. I asked him if he had deleted the email. He replied, "Yes, because i've already seen that website before."

  I shot him a look of contempt and walked out of his cube shaking my head in disgust. This experience has proven to me that there is no point to debating a JW or any creationist for that matter, because as soon as you supply the evidence they so desperately require, they will delete it if it doesn't follow their preconceived notions.
• 

  StephaneLaliberte

  Explaining and debating faith takes time. Not everyone has time - at the same time. What I mean is that perhaps this man took a serious amount of time to review his beliefs a few years back and then, went on to live accordingly. As time goes by, questions and doubts will arise and he will once more need to take a serious amount of time to review his beliefs once more. The fact that these periods do not happen when YOU ask a question does not make them ignorant. It simply means that at this time in his life, he needs to focus on work and other things.

  Point is: don't give up on him, simply make yourself lovable, show respect and when his next "self-questioning" period commes along, just be available.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  I have always been taught that:

  1) Mutations are always harmful, never beneficial.

  2) Nature always gets rid of mutations. Even in our imperfect state, mutations are dealt with and things are returned to "normal." So there can't be mutants that thrive and pass on their mutations that result in a new species some day.

  I just heard this in a talk from an Elder. Are you saying that it's not true??

  DD
• 

  rip van winkle

  Indoctrination and thought suppression are not easy to overcome. You never know what may be the catalyst to his awakening.

  As was already said by ecan6: be respectful, be available and don't give up!
• 

  Pyramid God

  DD- The elder said it, I believe it, that settles it! Haha

  The point of that article I sent him was that mutations are in and of themselves neutral, and it's up to organism's environment as to whether they turn out to be harmful or beneficial.

  The example they gave is spotted moths, before the industrial revolution, light moths were dominant, and during the revolution dark moths were dominant because of the soot coating the environment. The light moths were spotted easily against the soot and eaten by birds. Once pollution controls went into effect, the light moths again became dominant because the dark moths stuck out more and were eaten.

  I'm sure cofty can swoop in and give us all a lot more detail!
• 

  Laika

  I find it very unlikely that he's seen that site before.
• 

  Bugbear

  Pyramid God quoting:

  because as soon as you supply the evidence they so desperately require, they will delete it if it doesn't follow their preconceived notions.

  This is my experience to. I have often invited "old Friends" to go to an Evulotion Museum not far away from where I live. Everyone of them has rejected the idea, becouse the know they are only lying.

  But what about if you bring up the qeustion of mutating viruses? Every year we have to find out new vaccines to protect us against, the next generation of viruses.

  Bugbear
• 

  DATA-DOG

  So what's the difference in mutating and adapting to your enviroment? If there were always spotted moths and lighter moths in existence, then it seems like the moths did nothing. Man caused an enviromental change and the birds just did what they always do, they ate what they could see. It's not as if the light moths were pushed to the brink of extiction and then...whammo!!, dark moths were hatched. It's only logical that the moths that were harder to see lived to reproduce. Is that really mutation? After all, the lighter variation never disappeared and then became dominant again.

  I am not saying animals don't mutate, I just don't see how that is a good example. I am not trying to be argumentative either, I am just curious. I don't see it, and I am way more open-minded than most. How would you explain it to your Dad or a born-in?

  DD
• 

  Pyramid God

  DD-

  According to that article, the dark colored moth is the mutation of the normally lighter moth. The point of the example was that prior to the industrial revolution, the mutation was harmful, in that it made the moth more visible to predators. During the IR, the dark moths were less visible against the sooty landscape than the normal lighter moths, so it became a beneficial mutation. Since pollution controls went into effect, the dark moths are again becoming rare due to being easier to spot once again. The thrust is that the mutation of dark coloring was itself neutral, and it was the surrounding environment that caused it to be beneficial or harmful.

  Here's the article if you're interested- http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html
• 

  BluesBrother

  A lot of it has to do with the choice of words. J W's accept that life forms have adapted over time to what we see today, within their "own kind" - but if one used the word "mutation" they have been taught that "all mutations are harmful" . So use a different word.

  http://education.nationalgeographic.com/education/encyclopedia/adaptation/?ar_a=1

  An adaptation is a mutation , or genetic change, that helps an organism, such as a plant or animal, survive in its environment . Due to the helpful nature of the mutation, it is passed down from one generation to the next. As more and more organisms inherit the mutation, the mutation becomes a typical part of the species . The mutation has become an adaptation

  I am no expert but this is what the website said.....