No Satan (page 4)

Phizzy

Does Genesis actually identify the evil spirit as Satan ?

PelicanBeach

Phizzy,

"Does Genesis actually identify the evil spirit as Satan ?"

Not directly. Revelation 12:9 does identify the "old serpent" as the great dragon called devil and satan. The word translated "old" according to Thayer's defintions, "1) that has been from the beginning, original, primal, old ancient" Thus, the NWT calls him the "original" serpent.

Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."

Also Satan's attempts to tempt Jesus mirrored his work in the Garden showing that he repeatedly uses the same tactics.

jgnat

Interlinear, it's a serpent. http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/3.htm

cofty

The Jews adopted the idea of a devil from the Zoroastrian religion which they were exposed to during their exile in Babylon.

In pre-exile OT Yahweh does evil. Post-exile he has a nemesis. In other words old Yahweh was evil; new Yahweh was weak.

The we get the convoluted apologetics about divine sovereignty to explain his self-imposed impotence.

Genesis makes no mention of a devil that is a later interpolation.

mynameislame

When I was young I was told not to pray/speak my fears out loud so Satan could not use them against me.

Hmm wish someone had told me that so I could have prayed not to be rich or irresistible to attractive women

mynameislame

Between Adam, Eve and Satan, (and the mosquito) god doesn't seem to have a very good record in the creation department.

jgnat

Adam and Eve get such a bum rap. They were innocents! Not like us, who have centuries of practice dealing with duplicity.

ablebodiedman

Also Satan's attempts to tempt Jesus mirrored his work in the Garden showing that he repeatedly uses the same tactics.

Millions Now Living Will Never Die.

They positively will not die.

2 Corinthians 11:3

　But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, YOUR minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.

HHHhhmmm

Whose minds are corrupted?

abe

Robdar

http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/jewishbeliefsatan.htm

References to Satan in the Hebrew Bible

Satan appears as a proper character only once in the Hebrew Bible. In the Book of Job he is depicted as an angel who mocks the piety of a righteous man named Job. He tells God that the only reason Job is so religious is because God has given him a life filled with blessings. "But lay Your hand upon all that he has, and he will curse You to Your face" (Job 1:11). God accepts Satan’s wager and allows Satan to rain all manner of misfortune upon Job: his sons and daughters die, he loses his fortune, he is afflicted with painful boils. Yet even though people tell Job to curse God, he refuses. Throughout the book Job demands that God tell him why all of things horrible things are happening to him but God does not answer until chapter 38. "Where were you when I established the world?" God asks Job, "Tell me, if you know so much" (Job 38:3-4). Job is humbled and admits that he has spoken of things he does not understand.

The Book of Job grapples with the difficult question of why God allows evil in the world. It is the only book in the Hebrew Bible that mentions "satan" as a sentient being. The idea of satan has a being with dominion over a metaphysical realm never caught on in Judaism. Judaism is so strictly monotheistic that the rabbis resisted the temptation to characterize anyone other than God with authority. Rather, God is the Creator of both good and evil and it is up to mankind to choose which path they will follow.

exWTslave

YOU “knew he needed no external influences to be what he was.”

You are ABSOLUTELY right. This is what I always felt. I have seen people doing good/bad for the sake of goodness/badness, without needing an external factor.

You take an incurably bad person who is said to be under evil-spirit, and give him the same treatment he enjoys giving to others—he will definitely resist it with all his might. Does this not show that people choose to do whether good or bad.

I read about one Apex Court Judge, who judged against his own father on a tricky property case, which was a sort of 50-50 case. (As the only son, he was the actual beneficiary if the case had been judged in favor of his father). Even then he did not do! Then he died. Years later, Government declared an award of highest esteem to him to honor his integrity of exceptional nature. But his wife refused to accept the award saying her late husband was never after any honor while alive, he is same after his death too!

So, we see good people doing without the prodding of an external force!

So is with bad people—they do bad on their own!

No Satan

References to Satan in the Hebrew Bible

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