Silentlambs:Response from JW re: pedophile issue:

by stocwach 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Here is a response from a dub whom I emailed the press link from the Courier Journal yesterday (I will be meeting with him in a couple weeks, so any comments/rebuttals from you would be greatly appreciated):

    "Wasn't Dateline successfully sued by GM for their doctored report on the (As
    Dateline called it the exploding GM pick-up truck controversy) fuel tank
    debacle? How much did a jury award GM? Didn't Dateline come on the air and
    apologize as part of their settlement about their "poor and inaccurate
    journalism"? Just talking out loud.............Remember, scandals sell
    advertisement.

    Let's say that an allegation surfaced about one of your pastors 6 months
    ago, that he fondled a girl. It's the girls words against his. And let's say
    that nothing could be prooved yet a couple of your priests settled with this
    child's parents out of court to keep this hushed up. Then the courts in a
    future date somehow can proove that the priest did fondle and sexually
    assult this girl and that the other priests were part of it also by DNA
    testing. Would the actions of these priests change the fact that the
    doctrines you believed and were taught earlier to reflect the "True word of
    God" be cheapened/weakened any? If you were a Catholic, would this whole
    scandal change your faith in your religion? Hopefully not since man is
    imperfect. A classic example is the Apostle Judas that betrayed Jesus. Judas
    betrayal would not change your faith that Jesus was the son of man yet a
    clergy man stumbling is forcing ones to question their religion?
    Interesting......

    Think about God's choosen servants in the time of the Israelites and what
    they did. Kings and the High Priests were documented as killing people,
    adulterers, sex parties with temple prostitues, worshipping false Gods like
    Baal and Molech and sacrificing their first born children in fire to false
    God's. Some kings even killed God's prophets. Did the actions of these
    unfaithful men that were God's covenant people and the ones that God even
    appointed earlier in their lives change the fact that the Jewish faith was
    still not the "true' religion. If you think that the actions of imperfect
    men could change the status of Israels covenant with God, then I have no
    idea what to tell you. Remember, the bible holds the truth in it, to judge
    God's holy word by the actions of imperfect man is silly. If we were to
    judge by the clergy's actions, christianity on the whole is wrong for what happened during the crusades and we should all worship something else.
    However, please read Romans 5:13 which mentions that EVERYONE is a sinner.

    Now back to the JW issue. I will FULLY AGREE with you that there is nothing
    more dispicable then a child molester let alone a homosexual molester. If I
    had my druthers, they would be locked away in the prison section where bad
    things happen to bad people. However, back to the issue. If a couple elders
    are looking to protect a "friend" and fellow Elder, things like this can
    happen. Yet does the actions of say 7-8 men or say 50 million men change
    the fact that the doctrines you once were taught and believed are now false?
    I cannot control the actions of people that did what is clearly wrong.
    Sometimes it takes time for things to be investigated and the "truth" to
    surface. The bottom line is was the "truth" found out eventually and were
    these men removed whether they were the molester or the cover-up person? if
    someone was to accuse you of molestation, believe it or not I would defend
    you knowing that you are a family person that appears to be disgusted by
    this issue. Think about the accussed in this situation (whether they are in
    the wrong or right) and think about how the justice system is supposed to
    work. If you say that you didn't do it, and I said you did. It's going to
    take some time to proove who is right.
    Which then leads to the next thought that we hear all the time that is wrong
    with the JW religion which is we "Disfellowship/Excommuniate" people. People
    can't believe that we would 'Disfellowship" someone yet in this case, people
    are now wondering why we didn't disfellowship someone immediately before
    they were proven guilty. Go figure......By the way, Hitler died a faithful
    Catholic.

    Anyhow, there is NO warning from anyone not to watch Dateline. In fact, I
    will be glued to the TV set to hear all the things that dateline reports on
    the JW religion that are wrong. Also, I watched a 20/20 special that aired
    many years ago about the JW's. 20/20 did such a bad job that was so
    blantantly wrong that we had clipped out editorials from people writting to
    newspapers throughout the country that were non JW's that watched that
    segment that knew that 20/20 had gotten their segment wrong. In fact, I am
    going out extra in service the week after the episode airs and would love to
    clarify to any that will listen about our side of the story. Also I hope
    that dateline mentions which congreagation this happend in because when I
    find out which congregation this happened in, I will call the brothers there
    to get their take on the story.

    The GB will get involved if the appropriate people in charge do not do what
    the bible commands. As you know, things are always done first by the local
    elders. If this does not work, then Circuit Overseers gets involved. If that
    does not work, then a District overseer will get involved. If that does not
    work, then the brothers at Bethel get involved. By the way, all
    Disfellowshippings go to the GB to be filled on record. How much involvement
    the GB literally had in this matter was probably minimal yet, if things were
    not getting done, the GB will then step in, investigate, and remove any at
    fault. Hence why for the last three years background checks and pointed
    questions are asked of you for any that are to be appointed an elder to see
    if there are skeletons in their past. If by chance that you molested a child
    9 years ago, then studied with the JW's, you still would not be allowed to
    become an elder if this is found out. I wonder why the "apostates" failed to
    post the Awake journal written almost two years ago that discussed
    molestation accusations and what can happen if one is accussed and the
    actions that will be taken. I just love the bias of apostates.

    Yet my strongest proof of society trying to do the right thing is what I
    know locally. All I can say is that locally I know of ones that were
    'whistle blowers' and their accusations were taken very seriously. These
    whistleblowers were not disfellowshipped but the ones accussed sometimes in
    anger may try to make life difficult for the one accusing by discrediting
    them saying that they asked to be "touched" or whatever was done. In some
    cases it took a couple years to get the evidence together to proove the
    wrong doing. However, were these ones that were accussed disfellowshipped
    when the facts came out? Will they do jailtime if the family decides to take
    this matter to the local authorities? Make no mistake that for years, many
    have been removed and many have been subjest to trial for their actions. A
    scripture that comes to mind is: Pay back Caesars things to Caesars. (mark
    12:17) Elders can be removed if they do not obey the laws of the country
    they live in and also are subject to jailtime if prosecuted. There are
    countless JW's that learn the religion in prison and the JW's locally will
    not appeal a sentence to get them out of jail if they are truly guilty for a
    crime committed in their past.

    Don't get me wrong, molestation is very serious and sad. I hope that any
    that are affected by molesters/idiots don't turn their back on God
    completely because of the action of these vile people. Yet what does the
    bible say will be the outcome for ones that are hiding sins and don't get
    disfellowshipped because there is not enough proof that it happened? "All
    things are known by God." Whether one is not punished now, isn't it nice to
    know that God will take care of everything in the future?

    It seems like there are other issues to this story Lou. Remember, apostasy
    is grounds for disfellowshipping and by reading some of these peoples
    comments, it appears that they are apostates. If they were apostates before
    these issues came out would be interesting to see. But of course who knows
    the answer to that question since the article focuses on the JW organization
    and not the actual people and their history. Just because one complains of
    sexual abuse does not mean that if they become apostate that they won't get
    excommunicated. Once again, the actions of man does not validate nor void
    the truth from the bible. If they believed they had the "truth" they would
    not leave the organization since they know man is not perfect. Don't get me
    wrong, this situation would be tough to be in, but mans stupidity does not
    change God's word and truth.

    The ironic part is that unlike the Catholic chruch that knowingly moved
    pedaphiles around, the letter mentions that JW's will Excommunicate when
    wrong doing is found and that the JW's told the one elder to turn himself in
    to the police when evidence was found to be true.

    Couple the above comments with the fact that people are grave-diggers that
    will state there husbands died in the 9/11 attack and that some of the
    Catholic allegations you know will come back false, it's sad to say what the
    truth is in most cases.

    Once again, "All things are seen by God." For those that get away now with
    crimes, things will be taken care of later by the perfect judge God."

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    Yet does the actions of say 7-8 men or say 50 million men change
    the fact that the doctrines you once were taught and believed are now false?

    Response: Good point, braindead witty.

  • MarchOn
    MarchOn

    This scandal is not the only reason people have left the organization. Have you been reading other stories here besides the Silentlambs issue? I for one have not lost faith in God. I've lost faith in the WTS. Watch out Dateline the JW's are coming to your door too with their lawyers in toe!!!

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns
    Just because one complains of sexual abuse does not mean that if they become apostate that they won't get excommunicated.

    This is likely to be the position of the Society. The judicial committees will not be formed on the basis that the accused were "whistle-blowers" but on the basis that the accused are believed to be "apostates".

    I think this person's reasoning will be typical of the so-called knowlegable Witnesses and such reasoning will easily convince the majority that there is nothing to see here and it is fine to go back to sleep.

    Path

  • detective
    detective

    Two points:

    Jws excommunicate when they find someone "guilty". So, after finding someone "guilty" and throwing them out, are they then notifying the police to ensure that other innocent children don't have to suffer (yes, even non-jw children- the horrors!) Or is it more of an apathetic, "it's not our problem anymore" kind of approach? How should someone like me, who is a "worldly one", to understand the JW "loving" concern for me as they hand me magazines with the same group of people who will kick out say, my next door neighbor for pedophilia, and not call the police? Where is the love there? What are the priorities?

    Additionally, tell your friend not to worry about any incorrect information on dateline. Surely, the sociaty will sue dateline (and win!) if dateline slanders them. Has the watchtower ever backed away from a lawsuit when they actually believed they might win?

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    I find it continually fascinating that JWs will defend the Society to the death....sometimes literally.

    Most Catholics, upon learning about the pedophile scandal within their church are crying out for reform....for strict regulations to prevent this from ever happening again. JWs, on the other hand, refuse to see that the Elders in these congregations are following the Society's directives in their handling of these matters. Elders do NOT work independently of Brooklyn unless they are looking to be df'd themselves.

    Not one JW who has responded to this matter sees any need for change within the organization. In every case, they point to "imperfection" of the molester, and they try to put the blame on the victim.

    It's just so much easier for JWs to believe that an expose by the media is full of "lies" and that the only problem is with a "few" individuals......over 23,000 documented "individuals".....but, they're "imperfect", after all.....and most are still within the BOrg.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    JW's defense of the Watchtower is merely a thinly disguised effort to defend THEMSELVES PERSONALLY.

    Recognizing this defense mechanism for WHAT IT IS will be a first important step to breaking down these psychologically harmful barriers.

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    I see the age old problem of Jehovah's Witnesses confusing the society with God.

    Any hiearchy "whistle-blowing" is the same as trying to put God on trial, or making God accountable!

    They confuse someone who is turned off by this printing company's head office with someone turning their back on God or starting a new sect for crying out loud. AND they use the bible to do it!

    Poor R&F JWs who do equate the two. Double think, double speak.

    They are stuck in the "Yeah, but those guys are doing it too!" Easy to blame everyone else but impossible to look in the mirror.

    Thank you Silentlambs for forcing them to look at something that they cannot see. At least "outsiders" (non-JW like me), who are watching them, are taking notes. Hope they get put in a public court like the one going on right now with cardinal law.

    Mature christians have a duty to inform!

  • out4good3
    out4good3
    JW's defense of the Watchtower is merely a thinly disguised effort to defend THEMSELVES PERSONALLY.

    You know, I've really never thought of it that way. Perhaps that would explain why when any issue that comes up that paints the WT negatively, they'll turn rabid and attack the messenger like a pack of wolves. The original issue will always seem to get lost in the defense of the character of the individual bringing up the question.

    It just irritates me to know end how JW's will attack the Catholic Church about a problem that's going on in their own backyard. It'll be interesting what excuse they'll come up with for the WT when Dateline airs.

    I'm planning on using that program to bring up the UN issue. Should be a lot of fun watching them trying explain that one away.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    Two differences between JW's and Catholics:

    1) The Catholic clergy really DO keep confessions confidential;

    2) Catholics don't send convicted rapists to people's doors.

    that second one is a big difference that everyone seems to forget when conversing with JW's. They will defend by saying 'we don't allow molesters to ever assume a position of responsibility in teh congregation".

    Big woopdedo...they still go to 'worldy' doors!!!

    Once the public is aware of this on more than a superficial level---look out JW's!!!

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