Dead pregnant woman forced to stay on life support, due to TX State law

by adamah 285 Replies latest social current

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Adamah said: (although it must've been in the back of the judge's mind, with the prospect of the State cast in the role of Dr. Frankenstein, morbidly experimenting with cadaviers to save a malformed fetus, against the will of their next-of-kin).

    “I respect JPS’ arguments in trying to follow the law,” the judge said, “but every section doesn’t apply to someone who is dead.”

    Judges are human beings too, so lots of things were likely floating around in his head. However, his LEGAL conclusion couldn't be more clear: EVERY section of the law doesn't apply to pregnant, dead women

    If he thought it mattered legally, he would have mentioned viability, thereby leaving open the possibility of a hospital doing the same as JPS with a Munoz-type woman with a viable fetus.

    Both sides also agree that the fetus is not viable, and the judge noted that the mother could elect to have an abortion if she were able to make such a decision.

    “As I understand the ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court that if this fetus were not viable [and] Ms. Muñoz were alive … she could abort the child.”

    The above, at least to me, indicates he was merely ensuring that the statute was not allowing something that is disallowed by U.S. Supreme Court law. For example, the statute couldn't be used by a father to let a late-term, viable fetus die because late-term abortion is banned (wth narrow exceptions). State statutes cannot conflict with pre-empting SCOTUS law.

  • adamah
    adamah

    JT said-

    Judges are human beings too, so lots of things were likely floating around in his head. However, his LEGAL conclusion couldn't be more clear: EVERY section of the law doesn't apply to pregnant, dead women. If he thought it mattered legally, he would have mentioned viability, thereby leaving open the possibility of a hospital doing the same as JPS with a Munoz-type woman with a viable fetus.

    Thanks, and that makes perfect sense...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but after a judge gives a ruling, then the specific fact-patterns of the Munoz case don't matter any longer, since the ruling itself is what carries weight? I'm sure there must be some legal principle covering the allowable "wiggle room" for deviations in the fact patterns before a lawyer is unable to cite prior case law (I'm asking, since I'm wondering about the prior case which elicited a "bad form" response from you since the defendant's lawyers failed to mention it in JPS affadavit? There must be some principle analogous to the exclusionary rule for criminal law, except for relevancy of prior case law, or is that an issue to iron out on a case-by-case basis before the judge in the hearing)?

    At any rate, all of this points back to the necessity of such legal proceedings, which is a point some seem to have overlooked: such decisions allow for clarification of specific existing legal codes, so in the future a family who is similarly-effected by 166.049 doesn't need to start from ground zero. It's not a matter of simply having the ability to recognize that the hospital's interpretation and inaction was improper (no spit, Sparlock: most everyone here has pointed out that she's dead? It's WHY I started the thread!), but a matter of having the authority of a judge to decide and write a legal opinion that addresses the current case AND which can be cited by others.

    Adam

  • Violia
    Violia

    the words of Leonard Cohen " the Future" come to mind,

    Destroy another fetus now
    We don't like children anyhow
    I've seen the future, baby:
    it is murder

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Are you talking unfertilized eggs or eggs with chicks developing inside them? Do you eat eggs with chicks in them? I don't mean little blood specks, I mean chicks. On the left I can't tell if the egg is a bird egg. On the right it is clearly a bird egg, a developing chick. You can call it whatever you want to, but it is still a chick.

    Chick_E12.jpg (180×240)

    http://www.medicinenet.com/stages_of_pregnancy_pictures_slideshow/article.htm

    From medicinenet.com Wait a minute here, I didn't think this developing embryo was a baby, but according to medicenenet.com, it's a baby.

    First Trimester: The Baby at 4 Weeks

    • Your baby's brain and spinal cord have begun to form.
    • The heart begins to form.
    • Arm and leg buds appear.
    • Your baby is now an embryo and 1/25 of an inch long.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    More from medicenenet.com

    Second Trimester: The Baby at 16 Weeks

    • Muscle tissue and bone continue to form, creating a more complete skeleton.
    • Skin begins to form. You can nearly see through it.
    • Meconium (mih-KOH-nee-uhm) develops in your baby's intestinal tract. This will be your baby's first bowel movement.
    • Your baby makes sucking motions with the mouth (sucking reflex).
    • Your baby reaches a length of about 4 to 5 inches and weighs almost 3 ounces

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Second Trimester: The Baby at 24 Weeks

    • Bone marrow begins to make blood cells.
    • Taste buds form on your baby's tongue.
    • Footprints and fingerprints have formed.
    • Real hair begins to grow on your baby's head.
    • The lungs are formed, but do not work.
    • The hand and startle reflex develop.
    • Your baby sleeps and wakes regularly.
    • If your baby is a boy, his testicles begin to move from the abdomen into the scrotum. If your baby is a girl, her uterus and ovaries are in place, and a lifetime supply of eggs have formed in the ovaries.
    • Your baby stores fat and has gained quite a bit of weight. Now at about 12 inches long, your baby weighs about 1½ pounds.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Pregnancy and the decision to end one is a profound issue. It's nothing to take lightly. I glad that I am not in the shoes of anyone about to make a decision whether or not to end a pregnancy, whether it is this case of a pregnancy inside a brain dead mother, or it is a healthy, living mother making the decision, hopefully much earlier in her pregnancy. I'm pro-choice. I find the whole question of abortion makes me queasy. I'm still pro choice. I hope that no one takes the decision to end a pregnancy lightly. I'm speaking more of choosing to use the term embryo or fetus to lessen the impact and profundity of such a decision, in my lastest posts. Any of us who have been pregnant, especially if we wanted the baby, know that a pregnancy is nothing trivial to just have removed as if it were tonsils or a gallbladder.

  • sooner7nc
    sooner7nc

    Okie dokie. Sitting here with my popcorn waiting on the semantics Nazis to arrive.

    I agree completely with you FHN although I've never been pregos

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Sooner, they've already been here, scroll up.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Oh my stars, BOTR, you dont answer a rhetorical question to anyone but yourself.

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